ECT Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Ok, thank you for answering me.

According to the bible, it's those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God that will be saved, and those who live by the will of God, are those who enter into the kingdom of heaven. And God will be the judge of all of us.

John 5:24... Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life

You "believe" a "believer" comes under God's "Judgment"? Jesus said Truly twice... don't you believe HIM? :idunno:

 

[marhig]

John 5:24... Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life

You "believe" a "believer" comes under God's "Judgment"? Jesus said Truly twice... don't you believe HIM? :idunno:

I hear the word that Jesus preached and I believe in him that sent him, so who are you to say that I won't be saved? And those who truly believe, obey the word and the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus said that we are to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him, and those not willing to bare the cross are not worthy of him. He also said that those who live by the will of God, are those who enter into the kingdom of heaven. You have no right to judge others, we judge by the word, and leave it to God to judge the hearts of others.

And Paul also said this, (and seeing as many here believe that they are to listen to Paul and that the words of Jesus aren't for them but for the Jews). Then hear Paul.

2 Corinthians 5

For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


I believe that the word in both Jesus and Paul is for me to listen to and believe, so I believe that we are to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus, and that we are to live by the will of God, And that we are to appear before the judgement seat of Christ and be judged on what we have done, good or bad.


And there's this

Revelation 20

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I hear the word that Jesus preached and I believe in him that sent him, so who are you to say that I won't be saved? And those who truly believe, obey the word and the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus said that we are to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him, and those not willing to bare the cross are not worthy of him. He also said that those who live by the will of God, are those who enter into the kingdom of heaven. You have no right to judge others, we judge by the word, and leave it to God to judge the hearts of others.

And Paul also said this, (and seeing as many here believe that they are to listen to Paul and that the words of Jesus aren't for them but for the Jews). Then hear Paul.

2 Corinthians 5

For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


I believe that the word in both Jesus and Paul is for me to listen to and believe, so I believe that we are to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus, and that we are to live by the will of God, And that we are to appear before the judgement seat of Christ and be judged on what we have done, good or bad.


And there's this

Revelation 20

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

1... I've never said that I know your salvational fate... but that your teaching is dishonest and warped.

2... I asked if you believe Jesus when He says that believers don't enter into Judgment.. and your diatribe clearly says... you don't believe Him.

3... Jesus is either God and Savior... or a person is their own God and Savior. No in between...

4... You take pages to say that Jesus isn't God and that Believers are entered into judgment...

5... Isaiah 43:11 and Luke 2:11
...... you either bow to Him as Lord, God and Savior... or you pervert His free gift ... choose ye this day!

6... You will argue till the cows come home... but in reality... your own skin matters to you and you deny God Came in Flesh. Not resided in.... Came in our flesh... born of a virgin. You either except the simplicity... or lead others away from Him.

7... Your Deception is improving... but your respect for your Lord, GOD and SAVIOR... Jesus Christ... Is not.

He's GOD! Even the Demons Believe and tremble! How can you deny Him for WHO and WHAT HE is... while placing a price on grace?

8... it's late... nighty night

 

[marhig]

1... I've never said that I know your salvational fate... but that your teaching is dishonest and warped.

2... I asked if you believe Jesus when He says that believers don't enter into Judgment.. and your diatribe clearly says... you don't believe Him.

3... Jesus is either God and Savior... or a person is their own God and Savior. No in between...

4... You take pages to say that Jesus isn't God and that Believers are entered into judgment...

5... Isaiah 43:11 and Luke 2:11
...... you either bow to Him as Lord, God and Savior... or you pervert His free gift ... choose ye this day!

6... You will argue till the cows come home... but in reality... your own skin matters to you and you deny God Came in Flesh. Not resided in.... Came in our flesh... born of a virgin. You either except the simplicity... or lead others away from Him.

7... Your Deception is improving... but your respect for your Lord, GOD and SAVIOR... Jesus Christ... Is not.

He's GOD! Even the Demons Believe and tremble! How can you deny Him for WHO and WHAT HE is... while placing a price on grace?

8... it's late... nighty night

You might see what I'm saying as "dishonest and warped" but I have only ever said what is in the scriptures, and I believe the truth. You pick out verses and don't look at others, I too have given you verses that show that those who belong to God are judged, but you ignore them.

God is our judge, and he knows our hearts, so I'll leave my life and heart in his hands to judge.

Can you show me the verse you are talking about, where it says God came in flesh, so I can read it all? Thanks

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You might see what I'm saying as "dishonest and warped" but I have only ever said what is in the scriptures, and I believe the truth. You pick out verses and don't look at others, I too have given you verses that show that those who belong to God are judged, but you ignore them.

God is our judge, and he knows our hearts, so I'll leave my life and heart in his hands to judge.

Can you show me the verse you are talking about, where it says God came in flesh, so I can read it all? Thanks

Luke 2:11 and Isaiah 43:11 take effort and deception on your part to ignore. 1 Timothy 3:16 is even more blatant... 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

You say you believe scripture... but you ignore that Hebrews shows Jesus to be the Testator of the new covenant that He shed His blood to seal.

God, alone authored and put into effect the new covenant.

In John ... Jesus says to believe in Him. Only God is to be "believed in".

Jesus called Himself the I Am.

There is NO lack of scripture to back my assertion up... the only lacking is "your faith" in Jesus.

 

[marhig]

Luke 2:11 and Isaiah 43:11 take effort and deception on your part to ignore. 1 Timothy 3:16 is even more blatant... 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

You say you believe scripture... but you ignore that Hebrews shows Jesus to be the Testator of the new covenant that He shed His blood to seal.

God, alone authored and put into effect the new covenant.

In John ... Jesus says to believe in Him. Only God is to be "believed in".

Jesus called Himself the I Am.

There is NO lack of scripture to back my assertion up... the only lacking is "your faith" in Jesus.

Those scriptures don't say that God came in flesh and 1 Timothy 3:16 says that God was manifest in flesh. And I believe that, God was manifest through Christ Jesus. Manifest means to be seen clearly, and God was seen clearly through Jesus, because Jesus was in the express image of God, he was in the fullness of God because he lived fully by the will of God and obeyed God completely, only doing and saying what he was told to do and say by God, so we saw God in him. But he isn't God, and God is his God too, just like Jesus said.

The life of Christ is made manifest in those born of God, does that make them Christ? No it doesn't, it means that Christ is seen in and through those that belong to him .

And I have never ever ignored the shed blood of Christ, I don't see it as you do. I see the new testament in the flesh and blood of Christ, the flesh and blood that we eat and drink. And we can't drink his natural blood!!

And i believe the word of God not only in Jesus, but also in those born of God, which includes all the apostles and all those who truly worship God, all those who walk in Spirit and in truth.

And if you want me to, I'll show you plenty of scriptures as to why I don't believe that Jesus is God, just let me know and I'll post them.

Ok I'm off, speak soon.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The Trinity - Talking Points

The Trinity - Talking Points

God, the Trinity, and seven principles

God:
There is but one God (Deuteronomy 4:39), who is eternal (Isaiah 57:15; Psalms 90:2; Psalms 90:4; Revelation 1:8; Revelation 4:8; John 8:58; Exodus 3:14; Isaiah 45:21; Isaiah 46:9-10; Galatians 4:4-5; Acts 17:30-31), a spirit (John 4:24), sovereign (Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:17; Acts 17:28; Nehemiah 9:6; 2 Peter 3:7; Job 12:23; Job 34:14-15; Job 38:32; Matthew 5:45; Matthew 6:26; Numbers 23:19; 2 Samuel 7:28; Psalms 33:14-15; Psalms 104:14; Psalms 104:29; Psalms 135:6; Psalms 139:16; Psalms 141:6; Psalms 148:8; Proverbs 16:1; Proverbs 16:33; Proverbs 20:24; Proverbs 21:1; Proverbs 30:5; John 17:17; Ephesians 1:11; Galatians 1:15; 1 Timothy 6:15; Jeremiah 1:5; 1 Corinthians 4:7), good (Psalms 86:4; Psalms 107:1), loving (1 John 4:16), holy (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8 ), transcendent (Isaiah 40:25), omnipotent (2 Kings 19:25; Psalms 135:6; Jeremiah 32:17; Jeremiah 32:27; Genesis 8:14; Luke 1:37; Matthew 19:26; Psalms 115:3; Matthew 3:9), omniscient (Job 37:16; 1 John 3:20; 1 Cor. 2:10-11; Hebrews 4:13; 2 Chronicles 16:9; Job 28:24; Matthew 10:29-30; Isaiah 46:9-10; Isaiah 42:8-9; Matthew 6:8; Matthew 10:30; Psalms 139:1-2; Psalms 139:4; Psalms 139:16; Romans 11:33), unchangeable (Psalms 33:11; Psalms 102:25-27; Malachi 3:6; James 1:17; Isaiah 46:9-11; Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Zechariah 8:17), yet not existing in an eternally frozen pose but possessing Godly passions and emotions (Isaiah 62:5; Psalms 78:40; Ephesians 4:30; Exodus 32:10; Psalms 103:13; Isaiah 54:8; Psalms 103:17), and perfectly righteous (Psalms 7:11).

God has all life, (John 5:26) glory, (Acts 7:2) goodness, (Ps. 119:68) blessedness, (1 Tim. 6:15, Rom. 9:5) in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto Himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which He has made, (Acts 17:24-25) nor deriving any glory from them, (Job 22:2-3) but only manifesting His own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things (Rom. 11:36) and has most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever Himself pleases. (Rev. 4:11, 1 Tim. 6:15, Dan. 4:25, 35) In God's sight all things are open and manifest, (Heb. 4:13) His knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, (Rom. 11:33-34, Ps. 147:5) so as nothing is to Him contingent, or uncertain. (Acts 15:18, Ezek. 11:5) God is most holy in all His counsels, in all His works, and in all His commands. (Ps. 145:17, Rom. 7:12) To God is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience He is pleased to require of them. (Rev. 5:12-14)

The Trinity:

1. There is in the divine Being (God) but one indivisible essence (ousia, essential, being), see Deuteronomy 6:4, 1 Corinthians 8:4, Galatians 3:20, 1 Timothy 2:5.
2. The nature of the one divine being, God, is inclusive of all the attributes of His being, that is, God is His attributes, see God, as above.
3. In this one divine Being (God) there are three personal distinctions (what the church throughout history calls persons), or individual subsistences (personal modes of existence) Father, Son and Holy Spirit, see Genesis 1:1, 26, 3:22, 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1, Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14.
4. The whole undivided essence of God belongs equally to each of the three persons, see John 6:27, Romans 1:7, 1 Peter 1:2, John 1:1, 14, Romans 9:5, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:8, 1 John 5:20, Acts 5:3-4, 1 Corinthians 3:16.
5. The subsistence and operation of the three persons in the divine Being is marked by a certain definite order, see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, 1 John 4:14, John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, John 16:13-14.
6. There are certain personal attributes by which the three persons are distinguished, see 1 Corinthians 8:6, Revelation 4:11, Revelation 1:1, John 3:16-17, 1 Corinthians 8:6, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, John 1:1, 16:12-15, Matthew 11:27, Revelation 1:1, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Matthew 1:21, John 4:42, Genesis 1:2, Job 26:13, Psalm 104:30, John 16:12-15, Ephesians 3:5, 2 Peter 1:21, John 3:6, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 1:2, Isaiah 61:1, Acts 10:38.
7. The church confesses the Trinity to be a mystery beyond the full comprehension of man . There are absolutely no human analogies that can be made to capture the mystery of the Trinity, see Romans 11:33-34.

Of the Triune Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, if we say anything, we must say:
1. the Father is God,
2. the Son is God,
3. the Holy Spirit is God,
4. the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit,
5. the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit,
6. the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son, and
7. they are not three gods, but one God.

AMR

 

[Truster]

"7. The church confesses the Trinity to be a mystery beyond the full comprehension of man . There are absolutely no human analogies that can be made to capture the mystery of the Trinity,"

By church you obviously mean the denominations.

The weakest child that has been converted will know what is meant by "let us make man in our image" and never, ever question it. He will grow to understand the various offices of The Father of The Son and the operation of the Holy Spirit.

Anyone who has been converted will recognise this as absolute truth because they will have experienced it. The others will rely on what their denomination teaches and although they might jump ship and join another denomination it can never replace the anointing that teaches all things. The anointing that discovers and reveals error.



The Biblical analogy is that the likeness in which man was created is also triune. Body, soul and spirit. You won't find that in your creeds because it is from the mind of the Spirit and exists in the minds of the holy.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Those scriptures don't say that God came in flesh and 1 Timothy 3:16 says that God was manifest in flesh. And I believe that, God was manifest through Christ Jesus. Manifest means to be seen clearly, and God was seen clearly through Jesus, because Jesus was in the express image of God, he was in the fullness of God because he lived fully by the will of God and obeyed God completely, only doing and saying what he was told to do and say by God, so we saw God in him. But he isn't God, and God is his God too, just like Jesus said.

The life of Christ is made manifest in those born of God, does that make them Christ? No it doesn't, it means that Christ is seen in and through those that belong to him .

And I have never ever ignored the shed blood of Christ, I don't see it as you do. I see the new testament in the flesh and blood of Christ, the flesh and blood that we eat and drink. And we can't drink his natural blood!!

And i believe the word of God not only in Jesus, but also in those born of God, which includes all the apostles and all those who truly worship God, all those who walk in Spirit and in truth.

And if you want me to, I'll show you plenty of scriptures as to why I don't believe that Jesus is God, just let me know and I'll post them.

Ok I'm off, speak soon.

A manifestation of a thing is the thing manifested! A reflection of you in a mirror is YOUR reflection. If I pointed to your manifest reflection in a mirror and asked you who it was... and you said... "not me"... you would be showing yourself we-tod-it.

Marhig... De Nile isn't just a river in a far off land... :doh:

God was manifested in FLESH ... DEAL WITH it oh delusional one!

 

[ZacharyB]

Show me where it says in the bible that I have to believe that Jesus is God? Because as far as I have read I have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and I do!

The only clear NT verse that I know of is ...
"If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins!" (John 8:24)

This verse (and about 7 similar ones in John) do NOT have a "he" after "I AM"
in the original Greek.
The translators have added "he" simply for readability.

 

[ZacharyB]

Please tell me why NT passages such as those in the OP do NOT apply to you?

 

[Tambora]

Please tell me why NT passages such as those in the OP do NOT apply to you?

I hope you are not one that thinks EVERYTHING the Lord Jesus Christ said to anyone was for everyone at all times.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I hope you are not one that thinks EVERYTHING the Lord Jesus Christ said to anyone was for everyone at all times.

:thumb:

As St. John W. would point out... Mark 8:30 And He strictly charged them to tell no one about Him.

 

[Danoh]

Patrick I believe in God and Christ, and I love them from the depths of my heart, and I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. And that's what I'm told to believe in the bible. I have never seen it written that I must believe that Jesus is God to be saved. So why do many of you tell me that I must believe this or else I won't be saved? It doesn't say that anywhere in the bible, if it does then please show me where it is?

Quit worrying about it - they're extremists.

It's best you "be careful for nothing" where said motley crew is concerned.

Such are extremists.

The result being that no matter how you might reword a thing in the hopes of greater clarity in your words to them; they will twist them to where they read them from within their obvious, paranoid, religious hypocrisy.

What they care about is proving they alone are right.

They could care less for any sort of grace toward any one they consider not of their number.

You will not sway them.

The Lord Himself repeatedly failed with such.

Repeatedly.

They are they which justify themselves before (that is, in the eyes of), one another.

Walk your walk in faith, as you see it marhig, until the Scripture shows you otherwise - The Romans 14 Principle.

Romans 5:8

 

[patrick jane]

Quit worrying about it - they're extremists.

It's best you "be careful for nothing" where said motley crew is concerned.

Such are extremists.

The result being that no matter how you might reword a thing in the hopes of greater clarity in your words to them; they will twist them to where they read them from within their obvious, paranoid, religious hypocrisy.

What they care about is proving they alone are right.

They could care less for any sort of grace toward any one they consider not of their number.

You will not sway them.

The Lord Himself repeatedly failed with such.

Repeatedly.

They are they which justify themselves before (that is, in the eyes of), one another.

Walk your walk in faith, as you see it marhig, until the Scripture shows you otherwise - The Romans 14 Principle.

Romans 5:8

You are so full venom, bitterness and spite, it's shameful

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

The only clear NT verse that I know of is ...
"If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins!" (John 8:24)

This verse (and about 7 similar ones in John) do NOT have a "he" after "I AM"
in the original Greek.
The translators have added "he" simply for readability.

Shore enough, since "he" was bearing witness of Himself.


John 8:12

12*Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

 

[Tambora]

You are so full venom, bitterness and spite, it's shameful

He's overflowing.

 

[Danoh]

John 5:24... Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life

You "believe" a "believer" comes under God's "Judgment"? Jesus said Truly twice... don't you believe HIM? :idunno:

A thought on that...

Compare the Scriptures - escaping or meeting with that judgment is at the last resurrection, is based on works, being that it pertains to the Law Covenant, and does not apply to the Body, which is Under Grace.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

In short, though your intent is obviously a good one, none of that applies to the Body, which is under a Mystery Grace in accordance with what the Apostle Paul refers to as his gospel.

See Romans 2 thru 6, and Romans 15 and 16.

The seemingly odd thing about THE Mystery's Grace being that when it is abused, it only proves why Romans 5:8 was necessary.

Romans 5:8 - Amazing Grace...indeed.

If only the works based types would see this - "what a day of rejoicing that will be!"

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Til then, and nevertheless...

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

That too is the grace of Romans 5:8.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

A thought on that...

Compare the Scriptures - escaping or meeting with that judgment is at the last resurrection, is based on works, being that it pertains to the Law Covenant, and does not apply to the Body, which is Under Grace.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

In short, though your intent is obviously a good one, none of that applies to the Body, which is under a Mystery Grace in accordance with what the Apostle Paul refers to as his gospel.

See Romans 2 thru 6, and Romans 15 and 16.

The seemingly odd thing about THE Mystery's Grace being that when it is abused, it only proves why Romans 5:8 was necessary.

Romans 5:8 - Amazing Grace...indeed.

If only the works based types would see this - "what a day of rejoicing that will be!"

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Til then, and nevertheless...

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

That too is the grace of Romans 5:8.

I disagree that Marhig's perspective is okay... but agree she should be shown grace by us. In this I get why you said what you did. I don't think people here are validating one another... but Jesus and Who He is.

I cannot refrain from your Dispensational point here. So... publicly... despite the pot you stirred... I have thanked your post here.

:e4e:

 

[glorydaz]

I keep saying to you over and over,

God is helping me daily overcome this world,

Which is the buzz of every worker bee. ".....ME....overcome this world."