Happy Evolution Sunday !

[bob b]

This is so funny (yet tragic) I could not resist. Taken from Eugenie Scott's (an atheist) organization website:

Evolution Sunday!

Hundreds of Christian churches all over the country are taking part in Evolution Sunday, February 12, 2006. Michael Zimmerman, the initiator of the project, writes, "For far too long, strident voices, in the name of Christianity, have been claiming that people must choose between religion and modern science. More than 10,000 Christian clergy have already signed The Clergy Letter demonstrating that this is a false dichotomy. (I'll say, the choice is between Christianity and Darwinism) Now, on the 197th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin, many of these leaders will bring this message to their congregations through sermons and/or discussion groups. Together, participating religious leaders will be making the statement that religion and science are not adversaries (duh). And, together, they will be elevating the quality of the national debate on this topic." At last count, 365 congregations in 49 states were scheduled to hold Evolution Sunday events; they are listed at the Clergy Letter Project website.

Evolution Sunday is the successor to Zimmerman's successful Clergy Letter Project, in which over 10,000 members of the Christian clergy signed a statement reading, in part, "We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny (until recently) and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests (balderdash). To reject this truth or to treat it as 'one theory among others' is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought (thank God) and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. ... (Amen) We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth." (That's why we have to enlist scientifically naive Pastors to support our failing paradigm)

(Obviously my comments above in bold parentheses)

Recognizing that despite years of indoctrination in public schools and the media, almost half of all Americans still reject "molecules to man", atheist evolutionists are trying a new strategy, enlisting support from scientifically naive religionists.

This is precisely what happened in the days of Galileo when the Aristotlistic Ptolemists were losing to scientists like Galileo, so they got the Church and religion involved.

The atheistic scientists are trying it again and many scientifically naive pastors are swallowing their lie (by being willing to compromise their core beliefs).

They even try to wrap the mantle of modern science around themselves in these efforts. Next we will be hearing that because we got to the Moon, have computers, cell phones and microwaves that "modern science" (i.e. "molecules to man") is never wrong and is the only way to reliable truth, hence people should accept that random "accidents" can obviously create all the marvels being uncovered in lifeforms "given enough time", because obviously given enough time "anything can happen".

Well I still love science (having done so for over 65 years), but I am beginning to get really annoyed by psuedosciences like astrology, spiritism and "molecules to man" evolution.

SCIENCE IS AGAINST EVOLUTION.

 

[traveling man]

This is so funny I could not resist. aken from Eugenie Scott's organization website:



Recognizing that despite years of indoctrination in public schools and the media almost half of all Americand still reject "molecules to man", atheist evolutionists are trying a new strategy, enlisting support from the religionists.

This is precisely what happened in the days of Galileo when the Aristotlistic Ptolemists were losing to scientists like Galileo so they got the Church and religion involved.

The atheistic scientists are trying it again and many naive pastors are swallowing their lie.

They even try to wrap the mantle of modern science around themselves in these efforts. Next we will be hearing that because we got to the Moon, have computers, cell phones and microwaves that "science" is never wrong and hence people should accept that random "accidents" can obviously create all the marvels being uncovered in lifeforms "given enough time, because obviously given enough time "anything can happen".

Well I still love science (having done so for over 65 years), but I am beginning to get really annoyed by psuedosciences like astrology, spiritism and "molecules to man" evolution.

SCIENCE IS AGAINST EVOLUTION.

ever heard of progressive creationalism?

 

[CapnFungi]

Evolution is "Dark-Sided"

 

[`Love.]

That sounded like some kind of paper Hitler would force people to sign.

*gets mean, serious look on face* MEIN HEIT! *raises arm*

 

[noguru]

This is so funny (yet tragic) I could not resist. Taken from Eugenie Scott's (an atheist) organization website:

Evolution Sunday!

Hundreds of Christian churches all over the country are taking part in Evolution Sunday, February 12, 2006. Michael Zimmerman, the initiator of the project, writes, "For far too long, strident voices, in the name of Christianity, have been claiming that people must choose between religion and modern science. More than 10,000 Christian clergy have already signed The Clergy Letter demonstrating that this is a false dichotomy. (I'll say, the choice is between Christianity and Darwinism) Now, on the 197th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin, many of these leaders will bring this message to their congregations through sermons and/or discussion groups. Together, participating religious leaders will be making the statement that religion and science are not adversaries (duh). And, together, they will be elevating the quality of the national debate on this topic." At last count, 365 congregations in 49 states were scheduled to hold Evolution Sunday events; they are listed at the Clergy Letter Project website.

Evolution Sunday is the successor to Zimmerman's successful Clergy Letter Project, in which over 10,000 members of the Christian clergy signed a statement reading, in part, "We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny (until recently) and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests (balderdash). To reject this truth or to treat it as 'one theory among others' is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought (thank God) and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. ... (Amen) We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth." (That's why we have to enlist scientifically naive Pastors to support our failing paradigm)

(Obviously my comments above in bold parentheses)

Recognizing that despite years of indoctrination in public schools and the media, almost half of all Americans still reject "molecules to man", atheist evolutionists are trying a new strategy, enlisting support from scientifically naive religionists.

This is precisely what happened in the days of Galileo when the Aristotlistic Ptolemists were losing to scientists like Galileo, so they got the Church and religion involved.

The atheistic scientists are trying it again and many scientifically naive pastors are swallowing their lie (by being willing to compromise their core beliefs).

They even try to wrap the mantle of modern science around themselves in these efforts. Next we will be hearing that because we got to the Moon, have computers, cell phones and microwaves that "modern science" (i.e. "molecules to man") is never wrong and is the only way to reliable truth, hence people should accept that random "accidents" can obviously create all the marvels being uncovered in lifeforms "given enough time", because obviously given enough time "anything can happen".

Well I still love science (having done so for over 65 years), but I am beginning to get really annoyed by psuedosciences like astrology, spiritism and "molecules to man" evolution.

SCIENCE IS AGAINST EVOLUTION.

Still got that love affair going with science, Bob?

Perhaps if you loved God more than science, you wouldn't become so annoyed by research programs with which you do not agree.

I find it interesting that you bold faced "core component of human knowledge" in regard to the teaching of evolution. Isn't that what science is? You know, human knowledge? Humans use science to investigate the physical universe. It is not perfect, nor is it equal to divine revelation. I mean if you would stop trying to make science out to be some perfect form of divine revelation (something that it is not), none of this would be a problem. Or maybe it is because you are trying to turn divine revelation into a material science, something that it is not? :think:

 

[Quasar1011]

Perhaps if you loved God more than science, you wouldn't become so annoyed by research programs with which you do not agree.

I'd also get annoyed with science programs that lead people away from God. But then, I care about the eternal destination of others.

 

[noguru]

I'd also get annoyed with science programs that lead people away from God. But then, I care about the eternal destination of others.

How do science programs lead some people away from God? Why are some people basing thier faith on science programs? :think:

To me that is like basing your faith on shifting sands.

 

[Quasar1011]

How do science programs lead some people away from God? Why are some people basing thier faith on science programs? :think:

To me that is like basing your faith on shifting sands.

Oh come now. If evolution is true, that means there is no God. It also means that some races of men are better than others. We wound up with slavery and the Holocaust because of evolutionary dogma.

 

[fool]

Oh come now. If evolution is true, that means there is no God. It also means that some races of men are better than others. We wound up with slavery and the Holocaust because of evolutionary dogma.

Evolution in no way detracts from God.
It does falsefy YEC of the Literal Biblical sort, but that is mearly one subset of many possible theories.
As to slavery, it's in the Bible, which came way before Darwin.
As to the Holocaust, evolutionists have no reason to be pissed at the Jews, Christians on the other hand, do.

 

[noguru]

Oh come now. If evolution is true, that means there is no God. It also means that some races of men are better than others. We wound up with slavery and the Holocaust because of evolutionary dogma.

Quasar what universe are you in?

Evolution does not disprove God. Evolution itself makes no judgements of superiority or inferiority. Those judgements are made by humans and influenced by their culture. Actually if we knew 600 years ago what we know now about the races from an evolutionary standpoint, Europeans would not have enslaved Nubians. The Nazis accepted an irrational and twisted world philosophy. One of their core beliefs leading to the holocaust, was that all other races evolved and were animals, but that the Arian race was created seperately by God. Therefore according to the Bible the Arians had the right and the obligation to control other races as they saw fit.

There are also those YEC's who believe that being black is the mark of Cain. So this is not restricted to an old ages view of the universe. Any belief system can be twisted to support one's mistreatment of other people.

 

[Johnny]

Oh come now. If evolution is true, that means there is no God. It also means that some races of men are better than others. We wound up with slavery and the Holocaust because of evolutionary dogma.

You can thank the Christian church for that lie. And just so you know, slavery existed long before evolutionary theory.

I believe in evolution.

I believe in Jesus.

It's not one or the other. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.

 

[bob b]

BTW, in excess of 10,000 pastors and other religious figures have signed The Clergy Letter..

Read it and weep, so they say.

The Clergy Letter

Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible – the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts.

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.

I have always wondered whether Satan/Lucifer was simply a metaphor for evil, but reading such ingenious half-truths and lies as exhibited in the above prose, I may in the future have to consider his reality a bit more seriously.

 

[noguru]

BTW, in excess of 10,000 pastors and other religious figures have signed The Clergy Letter..

Read it and weep, so they say.



I have always wondered whether Satan/Lucifer was simply a metaphor for evil, but reading such ingenious half-truths and lies as exhibited in the above prose, I may in the future have to consider his reality a bit more seriously.

That's it Bob. If you don't agree with someone accuse them (ambiguously) of being Satan. I tell you what instead of just making a claim that there are half-truths, why don't you point them out to us and explain why they are half-truths?

 

[Wessex Man]

SCIENCE IS AGAINST EVOLUTION.

then tell me were the scientific proof is for creationism?Where outside of the bible is there a scrap of evidence for creatism.

 

[bob b]

Some unbeliever suggested I do this so don't blame me!

The Clergy Letter

Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook.

The old "the Bible is not a science textbook" canard (i.e. hoax). Genesis is a history of early mankind. When reading a history book we do not say "this can't be true because it doesn't employ the scientific method" do we?

Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible

A deceptive attempt to pretend that the authors of this letter (unbelievers all) love the Genesis story. It is more likely they despise it.

– the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths

They certainly do, and these stories are the foundation of the Christian message, since unless mankind fell Christ's atoning sacrifice would have had no meaning.

about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation.

Many ancient religions teach long ages. Hebrew is adequate to convey such a message and ancient humans would have been able to understand it.

Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth.

Yes, truth coming from God never has to change to adapt to new scientific findings.

Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts.

God teaches us that it is never right to do evil that good will come of it, so believers can depend on information coming from God to be true. Recounting history is not "scientific", but it does serve to tell us what happened in the past.

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist.

The timeless truth of the Genesis geneologies teach that mankind descended from Adam and Eve in the not too distant past. Mitochrondrial studies (Mitochrondrial Eve) validated the scriptural account, but despite this unbelievers still do not believe.

We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny

Actually, the "random mutations plus natural selection plus millions of years" is rapidly fading away because it is anti-science and rather useless to boot.

and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests.

The ultimate source of such a lie should be obvious to believers, because it has similarities to the one related in Genesis which led to Adam's rebellion: "You will not surely die".

To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children.

How come clergy who sign this letter are being asked to endorse and validate evolution? I thought religion and science were supposed to be separate realms?

We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator.

Yes, the failure to reject such an obvious fairytale as "molecules to man" amounts to a rejection of the role of the real Creator of life.

To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris.

As I mentioned before, if Adam was a metaphor and did not really fall, why do we need a plan of salvation? Use the God-given faculty of reason in that head of yours, people.

We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge.

Again the lie that evolution had anything to do with the advancement of science, when in fact it is actually an impediment, since it is so easy to invent just-so stories that "mutations dun it".

We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.

I agree that scientists should dump the religious belief that "random mutations plus natural selection plus millions of years" have created all lifeforms from a hypothetical primitive protocell. God told us what He did. Why disbelieve the truth?

Repent and turn to the God who in the beginning created the universe and life in the six days in which He said He did.

I hope this analysis of The Clergy Letter satisfies the unbelievers here.

 

[aharvey]

SCIENCE IS AGAINST EVOLUTION.

Ah, bumper sticker science... I asked you about this slogan once before; if you're going to use it again, can I ask you again to respond?

 

[bob b]

Ah, bumper sticker science... I asked you about this slogan once before; if you're going to use it again, can I ask you again to respond?

See my posting on the METHINKS IT IS (LIKE) A WEASEL. thread.

 

[Johnny]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/13/national/13evolution.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

[bob b]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/13/national/13evolution.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

More naive people drawn into the web of deception.

Didn't this happen to the Church some 400 years ago, and then after they took up the "cause" they eventually ended up taking the "rap". :down:

 

[Johnny]

Branding a certain group of scientists following a certain model "heretics" has happened before.