Guns and Ploice an interesting perspective

[This Charming Manc]

The reasons us brits keep going on about how wonderful the UK is not because we a smug and egotistical and patronising, but because we think on this issue we have something better than what you have and we want to let you in on the secret.

Sure its not perfect, we have our issues, but its better.

Does such a culture exist anywhere?

 

[This Charming Manc]

Interesting ..

I think one of the key reasons for the difference is the individualistic spirit that pervades america.

I think that mindset applied to law enforcement leads to a high gun ownership, high death culture.

I also think the biblical norm is community and individualism is in conflict with it.

Of course, Canada was a very similar settler demographic,
and also began as a frontier country...

Murder Rate: DEFINITION: Homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants in various countries.

Jamaica: 60 murders / 100,000
USA: 5 murders / 100,000
CAN: 2 murders / 100,000

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murder-rate






I'm not sure, but this might be related to the difference
for instance between Canada and the USA:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJsiAz9qCmM


When Canadians are essentially "anonymous members of the public",
they seem to self-identify differently than Americans.

Its as if Americans feel they must "uphold" or enforce the
Protestant Work Ethic of the previous century,
even when America is now a "Post-Christian"/ Anti-Christian culture.

 

[THall]

The difference is of course staggering.

America has a gun culture unlike anything else in the world.

In Switzerland, a much higher percent
of adult males have guns and shoot them
every year. Get a clue.

 

[This Charming Manc]

As usual you have checked even basic facts, just repeated what some other gun nut has told you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Your claim is just untrue, gun ownership in the US is higher, also look at regulations imposed, very very few people have the right to carry loaded guns and ammo is very heavily restricted in austria.

Not an equivalent to the US gun situation at all.

In Switzerland, a much higher percent
of adult males have guns and shoot them
every year. Get a clue.

 

[Stripe]

Not an equivalent to the US gun situation at all.

Strange. That thinking doesn't seem to stop you picking another nation to put alongside the US when the comparison suits your agenda. :think:

 

[This Charming Manc]

well im trying to draw contrasts between other countries and USA, so im looking for differences not similarities.

Strange. That thinking doesn't seem to stop you picking another nation to put alongside the US when the comparison suits your agenda. :think:

 

[Granite]

I know that you are aware that the history of this country contains an ever expanding frontier wherein each man, each family, each small band of folks had to tend to their own safety. They had to protect themselves from the bad guys as well as provide their own food and necessities.
So, yes, that independence which was contained within necessity is part of the American ethos.

That was true a long time ago. But the frontier's gone and we only live in the wild west, or with a wild west mentality, because some folks insist we have to. I don't believe that's the case anymore.

I said when it happened that if Sandy Hook didn't change anything, nothing would. So far I've been right. We could have another school massacre tomorrow--twenty, thirty, sixty kids slaughtered--and absolutely nothing would change. Our love affair with guns trumps any attempt at common sense. When Obama said we needed a sitdown about this problem, he was right. And the reaction was as predictable as it was hysterical.

 

[Stripe]

well im trying to draw contrasts between other countries and USA, so im looking for differences not similarities.

Switzerland is different. It is awash in weapons, yet does not have the murder rate of the US.

Clear evidence that your focus on guns as the problem is unfounded.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Switzerland is different. It is awash in weapons, yet does not have the murder rate of the US.

• Not as many weapons as the USA,
• much stricter regulation of guns
• much stricter regulation of ammo.
• most weapons are ex-service weapons
• most gun owners are serviced trained
• the percentage of people legally allowed to carry a loaded gun in public is extremely small

The Switz system seems to work with a Switz context, but its very different from both the US system. the US context and big fat US failure when it comes to gun policy.

If the US congress implemented a Switz system in the US the NRA would set its hair on fire.

Clear evidence that your focus on guns as the problem is unfounded.

Clearly only true of you want it to be, The US gun ownership rate is twice what Switzerland, Switz gun regulation is vastly superior to the US, its culture is different and the social pressure are different.

Switzerlands system different, thought it is different is from the rest of the world it works for Switzerland, the current US system is a death sentence for 5,000 to 10,000 Americans a year, its broken and I don't see any vaguely sensible ideas to fix it coming from the NRA.

 

[Granite]

The Swiss overall do have tighter restrictions than in the US (surprise) and the mandatory military service there changes the discipline and mentality around firearms completely. These comparisons are useful to a point but unfortunately, no other country has a gun culture like the United States. We can look for suggestions or alternatives elsewhere but they'll remain hypotheticals without a fundamental change in America's mentality when it comes to firearms.

 

[oatmeal]

warning article includes British self congratulatory smugness.

However if you can get past that, the article does gives insights into realities of living in a low gun culture.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/armed-police-in-england-and-wales-only-fired-their-weapons-twice-during-14864-operations-in-201314-10378829.html

Meanwhile violent crime such as violent home invasions are up to the inability of homeowners, especially women, children and the elderly to defend themselves and their property.

A "low gun culture" does not reduce crime, it simply changes which crimes are easier to commit.

Should England ever be in danger of invasion, oh, wait, it is being invaded by violent Muslims, you find yourself defenseless like it did before WWII.

 

[Granite]

Meanwhile violent crime such as violent home invasions are up to the inability of homeowners, especially women, children and the elderly to defend themselves and their property.

You expect children to defend themselves with firearms?

Should England ever be in danger of invasion, oh, wait, it is being invaded by violent Muslims, you find yourself defenseless like it did before WWII.

:yawn:

 

[Stripe]

• Not as many weapons as the USA,
• much stricter regulation of guns
• much stricter regulation of ammo.
• most weapons are ex-service weapons
• most gun owners are serviced trained
• the percentage of people legally allowed to carry a loaded gun in public is extremely small

The Switz system seems to work with a Switz context, but its very different from both the US system. the US context and big fat US failure when it comes to gun policy.

If the US congress implemented a Switz system in the US the NRA would set its hair on fire.



Clearly only true of you want it to be, The US gun ownership rate is twice what Switzerland, Switz gun regulation is vastly superior to the US, its culture is different and the social pressure are different.

Switzerlands system different, thought it is different is from the rest of the world it works for Switzerland, the current US system is a death sentence for 5,000 to 10,000 Americans a year, its broken and I don't see any vaguely sensible ideas to fix it coming from the NRA.

Like we said: You're against comparing situations until you find a way to make it suit your agenda.

 

[This Charming Manc]

No we didn't say that at all..

Your claiming that and your wrong.

Like we said: You're against comparing situations until you find a way to make it suit your agenda.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Meanwhile violent crime such as violent home invasions are up to the inability of homeowners, especially women, children and the elderly to defend themselves and their property.

Have you actually looked at crime stats etc and compared?

A "low gun culture" does not reduce crime, it simply changes which crimes are easier to commit.

ganerally its stops an argument becoming a murder, id settle for that

Should England ever be in danger of invasion, oh, wait, it is being invaded by violent Muslims, you find yourself defenseless like it did before WWII.

WOW slow down there cowboy ... how do we get from low gun culture to WWII? No connection in any argument at all, or are you just making up for lack of cohesive argument with insults.

Also get your history straight us Brits were not defensless we stood alone for 2 years whilst you guys were still trying to work out if the Nazi's were bad or not.

 

[Stripe]

Your claiming that and your wrong.

Nope. The availability of guns has nothing to do with crime.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Nice to see you bother to construct and argument. You also attempt to counter an argument i'm not making.

The thrust of my argument is not a link between crime and guns, but gun crime and guns.

Nope. The availability of guns has nothing to do with crime.

 

[Stripe]

The thrust of my argument is not a link between crime and guns, but gun crime and guns.

Which is the equivalent of a poor nation mocking England because, hey, look at our road traffic death rate compared with yours.

 

[TomO]

You expect children to defend themselves with firearms?

lain: By the age of 7 I was quite proficient with a .38 revolver, and a .380 Walther PPK/S (besides various other .22's and small bore shotguns). The whole point of firearms is that they are an equalizer in regards to physical inequity.


Oklahoma Girl Shoots Home Intruder: 12-Year-Old Uses Family's Gun To Protect Self, Home


15-Year-Old Defends Home Against Burglars, Shoots One Of Them With Father's AR-15


Police: 11-year-old scares intruder away with shotgun

 

[TomO]

The thrust of my argument is not a link between crime and guns, but "gun crime" and guns.

One of those nonsensical phrases like "common sense solutions"...Kind of like that well established link between "drug crime" and drugs...and "car accidents" and cars.

I understand you dorks actually have "knife crime" over on your little island. :rotfl:

How should the police respond to London's knife crime injury rise?


Just a matter of time before the headlines are awash in "pointed stick crime".

Self Defense