God's commands in Jesus and the coming of the new covenant.

[Interplanner]

That the Law made sin utterly sinful is different from an increase of sins.

Sin was made utterly sinful.

Romans 7:13 NASB - 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

With the Law the transgression increased; where sin increased grace abounded all the more.

Romans 5:20 NASB - 20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

"through the law"

Romans 7:8, 11, 13 NASB - 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. ... 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. ... 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Noachic law or Noachide laws are for all mankind, while the Law of Moses is for the nation of Israel and the world.

Romans 3:19 NASB - 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

How could something possibly be for all nations while the other is for Israel and the world. It's really that the Law of Moses was for Israel but contains some pre-existing and on-going universal application apart from ceremonies and dietary items.

 

[Jacob]

How could something possibly be for all nations while the other is for Israel and the world. It's really that the Law of Moses was for Israel but contains some pre-existing and on-going universal application apart from ceremonies and dietary items.

Here is what the scripture reveals "God spoke to Noah" after the flood.

Genesis 8:15-22 NASB - 15 Then God spoke to Noah, saying, 16 "Go out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and your sons' wives with you. 17 "Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, that they may breed abundantly on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth." 18 So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him. 19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out by their families from the ark. 20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. 22 "While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease."

Here "God blessed Noah and his sons and said this to them".

Genesis 9:1-19 NASB - 1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 "The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. 3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. 4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 "Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man. 6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man. 7 "As for you, be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it." 8 Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, 9 "Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; 10 and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. 11 "I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth." 12 God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations; 13 I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. 14 "It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud, 15 and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 "When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth." 17 And God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth." 18 Now the sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Japheth; and Ham was the father of Canaan. 19 These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated.

 

[intojoy]

I'll say this, and you can think about it, I thought today about how Paul tried going back under the Law of Moses to gain sanctification and failed. The law shows us that man is not going to sanctify himself by any religious outworking of any set of laws be they Hindu, Muslim, Romanism etc because in the Law God gave to Israel man can see a perfect standard of righteousness and if Israel did not attain spiritual maturity by it then no other religiousity is going to produce Holy living!

Paul said that he was apart from the law once. What he is saying is that early on in his born again life, he thought sanctification could be achieved thru the Law of Moses. He quickly learned the folly of that assumption.

The writer of the book of Hebrews states that the entire 613 (not just 10) laws of Moses is now been rendered inoperable.

 

[Jacob]

I'll say this, and you can think about it, I thought today about how Paul tried going back under the Law of Moses to gain sanctification and failed. The law shows us that man is not going to sanctify himself by any religious outworking of any set of laws be they Hindu, Muslim, Romanism etc because in the Law God gave to Israel man can see a perfect standard of righteousness and if Israel did not attain spiritual maturity by it then no other religiousity is going to produce Holy living!

Paul said that he was apart from the law once. What he is saying is that early on in his born again life, he thought sanctification could be achieved thru the Law of Moses. He quickly learned the folly of that assumption.

The writer of the book of Hebrews states that the entire 613 (not just 10) laws of Moses is now been rendered inoperable.

I don't believe you understand the truth. At least the things you are talking about are off the mark.

God's Torah was given to the nation of Israel.

Paul kept it though he came to understand his own shortcomings (all have sinned). He preached Christ crucified, salvation by grace through faith.

 

[God's Truth]

And it will be in the kingdom of God.

A covenant is an agreement whereas a testament is a will.

You are wrong. New Testament means New Covenant.

 

[God's Truth]

That the Law made sin utterly sinful is different from an increase of sins.

Sin was made utterly sinful.

Romans 7:13 NASB - 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

With the Law the transgression increased; where sin increased grace abounded all the more.

Romans 5:20 NASB - 20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

"through the law"

Romans 7:8, 11, 13 NASB - 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. ... 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. ... 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Noachic law or Noachide laws are for all mankind, while the Law of Moses is for the nation of Israel and the world.

Romans 3:19 NASB - 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

There is no such thing as Noahide laws. You have been listening to rabbis.

The Gentiles were WITHOUT God in this world because they did not obey the law as given by Moses.

Do you understand that?

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

 

[God's Truth]

I see that in one sense but still believe that even if that is true, and the Law of Moses and the Ten Commandments are God's Law, we still have that by it all the world is made or held accountable to God.

God has given Israel His Torah.

Those in Israel were all to live by one Law. And those who were of Israel outside the land could would or should live by that same law. Then what of those who wanted to become of Israel or worship the God of Israel?

Isaiah 56:1-8 NASB - 1 Thus says the LORD,"Preserve justice and do righteousness,For My salvation is about to comeAnd My righteousness to be revealed. 2 "How blessed is the man who does this,And the son of man who takes hold of it;Who keeps from profaning the sabbath,And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say,"The LORD will surely separate me from His people."Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree." 4 For thus says the LORD,"To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths,And choose what pleases Me,And hold fast My covenant, 5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial,And a name better than that of sons and daughters;I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off. 6 "Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD,To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD,To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbathAnd holds fast My covenant; 7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountainAnd make them joyful in My house of prayer.Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples." 8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,"Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered."

You are contradicting yourself, what happened to the "Noahide laws"?

 

[God's Truth]

I see you referring to Adam, Abraham, Sarah and Isaac, Hagar and Ishmael, (Isaac the son of Abraham and Sarah was born after Ishmael of Abraham and Hagar), and Jesus. My understanding is that Jesus is not a Spirit.

Jesus says his words are Spirit and the flesh counts for nothing.

The scriptures also says the Lord IS THE SPIRIT. See 2 Corinthians 2:17.

 

[Jacob]

There is no such thing as Noahide laws. You have been listening to rabbis.

The Gentiles were WITHOUT God in this world because they did not obey the law as given by Moses.

Do you understand that?

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

There is such a thing. But as you know these are not found in the scriptures I have now quoted.

 

[Jacob]

You are contradicting yourself, what happened to the "Noahide laws"?

I don't see a contradiction. Read the scriptures about Noah and Noah and his sons. Some of this goes back to Adam. God has commands for all mankind.

 

[Jacob]

Jesus says his words are Spirit and the flesh counts for nothing.

The scriptures also says the Lord IS THE SPIRIT. See 2 Corinthians 2:17.

Yes, but in Ishmael we have God's promise and Isaac was the son of promise.

It was Jacob or rather Israel (in the Bible Jacob's name was changed to Israel) who bore the twelve sons that became (or, from which came) the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[jamie]

You are wrong. New Testament means New Covenant.

Who died?

For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. (Hebrews 9:16-17)​

The New Testament is in force because someone died.

 

[God's Truth]

Who died?

For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. (Hebrews 9:16-17)​

The New Testament is in force because someone died.

You do not even know who died?

Jesus came and taught us the commands for the New Covenant, then he died and shed his blood for the New Covenant.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, but in Ishmael we have God's promise and Isaac was the son of promise.

It was Jacob or rather Israel (in the Bible Jacob's name was changed to Israel) who bore the twelve sons that became (or, from which came) the twelve tribes of Israel.

What exactly are you saying? What does this have to do with what I said?

By the way, what is it you are saying about Ishmael?

 

[God's Truth]

There is such a thing. But as you know these are not found in the scriptures I have now quoted.

The Gentiles were separate from God and Christ because they did not follow the regulations of the law, such as get circumcised.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't see a contradiction. Read the scriptures about Noah and Noah and his sons. Some of this goes back to Adam. God has commands for all mankind.

Again, you got those things from listening to 'rabbis'. Jesus says not to call anyone 'rabbi', yet you go to those who call themselves 'rabbi' against Jesus' teachings.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't believe you understand the truth. At least the things you are talking about are off the mark.

God's Torah was given to the nation of Israel.

Paul kept it though he came to understand his own shortcomings (all have sinned). He preached Christ crucified, salvation by grace through faith.

Anyone could have converted to Judaism.

Paul did not keep the old law, except not to break the rules and regulations to go into the temple. He went to the temple to speak about Jesus to the Jews there.

He spoke against circumcision and the observance of special days, and he spoke against the dietary laws. Paul also ate with Gentiles, which was against the law.

 

[jamie]

Jesus came and taught us the commands for the New Covenant, then he died and shed his blood for the New Covenant.

What you refer as a New Covenant was just a new covenant to his disciples who had lived subject to the Mosaic covenant. However, God had promised an everlasting covenant to Abraham which included people of all nations being blessed through Abraham, not Moses. This is the covenant Jesus established for everyone on earth.

 

[Interplanner]

What you refer as a New Covenant was just a new covenant to his disciples who had lived subject to the Mosaic covenant. However, God had promised an everlasting covenant to Abraham which included people of all nations being blessed through Abraham, not Moses. This is the covenant Jesus established for everyone on earth.

Jamie, you're making a distinction that doesn't exist. There is no however to insert here. The last lines of your paragraph are the same covenant.

 

[God's Truth]

What you refer as a New Covenant was just a new covenant to his disciples who had lived subject to the Mosaic covenant.

No, Jesus' covenant is to EVERYONE, Jews and Gentiles.

However, God had promised an everlasting covenant to Abraham which included people of all nations being blessed through Abraham, not Moses.

Jesus is the promised new covenant.

This is the covenant Jesus established for everyone on earth.

Why don't you know that you contradicted yourself?