Gay Catholics Push for Church Weddings

glassjester

Well-known member
They pursue Catholic church weddings for one reason:

To prove they can. They always have to win, and won't take 'no' for an answer, no matter that it makes no sense.

I hope pride isn't the reason. It would be interesting to ask.


I'm guessing this happens with people who "identify" as Catholic, but don't know or believe much Church teaching. In which case, the problem is hardly limited to homosexuals.

The thing these people miss is, beliefs are what make you a member of a belief system. Someone saying they "identify" as Catholic, but don't hold Catholic beliefs is like saying I'm a three-sided figure, but I identify as a square. It's untrue, by definition.
 

Quetzal

New member
They pursue Catholic church weddings for one reason:

To prove they can. They always have to win, and won't take 'no' for an answer, no matter that it makes no sense.
I think it might be a bit deeper than that, but I can see why that wouldn't interest you.
 

GFR7

New member
I hope pride isn't the reason. It would be interesting to ask.


I'm guessing this happens with people who "identify" as Catholic, but don't know or believe much Church teaching. In which case, the problem is hardly limited to homosexuals.

The thing these people miss is, beliefs are what make you a member of a belief system. Someone saying they "identify" as Catholic, but don't hold Catholic beliefs is like saying I'm a three-sided figure, but I identify as a square. It's untrue, by definition.
They know the score. It is pride.
 

GFR7

New member
I think it might be a bit deeper than that, but I can see why that wouldn't interest you.
Why would it be deeper? They know where the Catholic Church stands, and why. In fact, it's shallow. It's a I-have-to-win-at-any-price thing.
 

Quetzal

New member
Why would it be deeper? They know where the Catholic Church stands, and why. In fact, it's shallow. It's a I-have-to-win-at-any-price thing.
I am happy that you have the talent to be able to read the minds of every homosexual who identifies as a Catholic. Perhaps you can use your mind reading abilities and go on the road as a traveling magician.
 

GFR7

New member
I am happy that you have the talent to be able to read the minds of every homosexual who identifies as a Catholic. Perhaps you can use your mind reading abilities and go on the road as a traveling magician.
That's a wonderful idea! :BRAVO:
 

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
This is a non-issue.

The Church will marry a couple as long as one of the spouses-to-be is a practicing Catholic in good standing with the Church.

In the case of a homosexual couple, neither one of them is a practicing Catholic in good standing with the Church.

So, no Catholic wedding. Boo hoo.

What confuses me is - if they do not believe Catholic doctrine, why's a wedding in a Catholic church even desirable to them?
"Glassjester" has missed the point and is trying to create the impression that the secular and Church concepts of "marriage" have not changed dramatically over time.

It was not until 1563 that witnesses to weddings, including an officiating priest, were required by the Church.

In Nazi Germany, apartheid South Africa and in many states in the US prior to 1967, the Church would not conduct interracial marriages, even if they were Catholics in "good standing," because it was expressly forbidden by law.

If such laws were reintroduced today in Germany, South Africa, America or any other jurisdiction in the world, would the Catholic Church risk defying the law of the land by recognizing and conducting marriages between groups that are prohibited from marrying.

Based on past performance the answer is no!
 

glassjester

Well-known member
"Glassjester" has missed the point and is trying to create the impression that the secular and Church concepts of "marriage" have not changed dramatically over time.

I've missed nothing. You, however, have missed a point much bigger than the one you mistakenly accuse me of missing: the difference between doctrine and discipline in the Catholic Church.


Are you Catholic? Maybe presuming to know more about the teachings of the Church than the actual Church itself is not wise.

Here's a start:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/is-it-a-doctrine-or-a-discipline
 

HisServant

New member
To fast? Gays have been fighting for equality for decades.

Just how many years of being denied rights and legal protections should gays, or any minority for that matter, have to live as second class citizens?

Between emancipation and the civil rights law African Americans had a century of being second class citizens. Did they move to fast?


What costs? Can you give an actual example?

What about the personal and social costs of ongoing discrimination?

And just how long, in your opinion should people be denied rights and legal protections?

How many years did busing take place?... its relatively the same thing.
 

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
I've missed nothing. You, however, have missed a point much bigger than the one you mistakenly accuse me of missing: the difference between doctrine and discipline in the Catholic Church.

Are you Catholic? Maybe presuming to know more about the teachings of the Church than the actual Church itself is not wise.

Here's a start:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/is-it-a-doctrine-or-a-discipline
Being a Catholic does bring with it the privilege of invoking "infallibility" when it comes to Church matters!

With all due respect to doctrine, teachings and discipline, the fact still remains that the Catholic Church has declined to marry those of its members in "good-standing" where it is forbidden by secular law.

"Glassjester" has yet to produce any evidence to demonstrate that the Catholic Church has had the moral courage to defy the state (Germany, South Africa, US, etc) and to conduct interracial marriages where they were prohibited by law.

As a footnote, the Catholic Church is hardly an institution known for its racial diversity when it comes to the papacy - it would appear that God has a decided bias in favor of white, elderly, European males when it comes to providing spiritual guidance for His Church!

To be fair, the track records of Protestant and other Christian groups on these matters have been no better than their Catholic counterparts.
 
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TracerBullet

New member
How many years did busing take place?... its relatively the same thing.

are you saying that segregation and Jim Crow and lynchings were just a few inconveniences that a large chunk of people in this country had to go through before they could have the same rights and legal protections that you have?
 

republicanchick

New member
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ha ha... almost comical

the term gay Catholic is like saying.. pro life Nazis.



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republicanchick

New member
Uh huh. Yep :D Gays will give up this fight, just as they gave up the fight to get in the Boy Scouts, to have same sex marriage legal in 50 states, etc............. :wave2:

that's all they do is fight... for perversity

if there is a perversity yet to be claimed as a right, they (libs... gays in particular)will latch onto and not let go until "everyone" or at least almost everyone sees things their perverted way...

perverse

But oh well.. I pray that they begin to have to desire to go to Heaven... It's not as common a desire as u would think..




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jgarden

BANNED
Banned
While it is a relatively new practice that same-sex couples are being granted the same form of legal marital recognition as commonly used by opposite-sexed couples, there is some history of recorded same-sex unions around the world

- same-sex marital practices and rituals were more recognized in Mesopotamia than in ancient Egypt. The Almanac of Incantations contained prayers favoring on an equal basis the love of a man for a woman and of a man for man.

- in the southern Chinese, throughout the Ming dynasty period, females would bind themselves in contracts to younger females in elaborate ceremonies. Males also entered similar arrangements. This type of arrangement was also similar in ancient European history

- in Hellenic Greece, the pederastic relationships between Greek men (erastes) and youths (eromenos) were similar to marriage in that the age of the youth was similar to the age at which women married and the relationship could only be undertaken with the consent of the father.

- examples of same sex unions among peers, not age-structured, are found in Ancient Greek writings. Famous Greek couples in same sex relationships include Harmodius and Aristogiton, Pelopidas and Epaminondas and Alexander and Bogoas.

- a debate between homosexual and heterosexual love was included in Plutarch's Moralia

- among the Romans, there were instances of same-sex marriages being performed. At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex unions; and in fact, thirteen out of the first fourteen Roman Emperors were thought to be bisexual or exclusively homosexual

- same-sex marriage was outlawed on December 16, 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans

- 390 AD - the Christian emperors Valentinian II, Theodoisus and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those who were guilty of it were condemned to be burned alive in front of the public

- teachings of the Talmud and Torah, and the Bible, were seen as specifically prohibiting the practices as contrary to nature and the will of the Creator, and a moral shortcoming. Even after the passing of the Theodosian code, the Christian emperors continued to collect taxes on male prostitutes until the reign of Anastasius (491–518)

- Augustine of Hippo presented marriage as an important sacrament of the Christian Church in the 5th century CE, it wasn't until the "Sentences" of Peter Lombard, in the middle of the 12th century, that marriage became a part of the seven sacraments of the Catholic Christian Church

- Christian emperor Justinian (527–565) made homosexuals a scapegoat for problems such as "famines, earthquakes, and pestilences."

- historian John Boswell claimed the 4th century Christian martyrs Saint Sergius and Saint Bacchus were united in the ritual of adelphopoiesis, which he calls an early form of religious same-sex marriage

- Adelphopoiesis, or brother-making, represented an early form of religious same-sex marriage in the Orthodox church. Alan Bray saw the rite of Ordo ad fratres faciendum ("Order for the making of brothers") as serving the same purpose in the medieval Roman Catholic Church

- same-sex marriage between the two men Pedro Díaz and Muño Vandilaz in the Galician municipality of Rairiz de Veiga in Spain occurred on 16 April 1061. They were married by a priest at a small chapel. The historic documents about the church wedding were found at Monastery of San Salvador de Celanova

- late medieval France, it is possible the practice of entering a legal contract of "enbrotherment" (affrèrement) provided a vehicle for civil unions between unrelated male adults who pledged to live together sharing ‘un pain, un vin, et une bourse’ – one bread, one wine, and one purse. This legal category may represent one of the earliest forms of sanctioned same-sex unions.-

- in North America among the Native Americans societies, same-sex unions have taken place with persons known as Two-Spirit types. These are individuals who fulfill one of many mixed gender roles in First Nations and Native American tribes. "In many tribes, individuals who entered into same-sex relationships were considered holy and treated with utmost respect and acceptance," according to anthropologist Brian Gilley.

- on July 20, 2005, Canada became the fourth country in the world and the first country in the Americas to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide with the enactment of the Civil Marriage Act which provided a gender-neutral marriage definition

- as of March 2014 Same-sex marriage is currently legal in eleven European countries: Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, France, the United Kingdom (England, Wales and Scotland), [Sweden] and Luxembourg , Finland is currently in the process of legislation

- other types of recognition for same-sex unions (civil unions or registered partnerships) are as of 2014 legal in twelve European countries: Andorra, Austria, Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, (Isle of Man), (Jersey), Liechtenstein, Slovenia, Switzerland, the United Kingdom (Northern Ireland), Malta and Croatia.

- a referendum to change the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland to allow same sex marriage took place on 22 May 2015 and approved the proposal to add the following declaration to the Constitution: "marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex".

- on June 26, 2015, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Obergefell v. Hodges that marriage is a fundamental right and must be extended to same-sex couples.

Christian denominations that accept same-sex relationships include
- the United Church of Canada
- the United Church of Christ
- all German Lutheran, reformed and united churches in EKD
- all Swiss reformed churches
- the Protestant Church in the Netherlands
- the United Protestant Church in Belgium
- the United Protestant Church of France
- the Church of Denmark
- the Church of Sweden,
- the Church of Iceland
- the Church of Norway
- The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland
- The Metropolitan Community Church
- The Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals (GAAAP)
- the Affirming Pentecostal Church International

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions
Views on marriage in general and the acceptance of same-sex marriage in particular have varied over time - even within the Christian Church.
 
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republicanchick

New member
this says it all about "gays"

Nero is said to have gotten married to two men



Yeh, that ought to do it... ought to end all our debate about how mature and psychologically ok "gays" are..

yeppers



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republicanchick

New member
That gays would want the blessings of the Catholic Church. As you say, it's oxymoronic. ;)

I don't think they do

they want to FORCE people to... do stuff.. force peoiple and organizations to change.. control freaks...

and/or they want validation

when deep in their "hearts" they know they are WRONG... they know they are... don't buy it they don't know that..

__
 

GFR7

New member
I don't think they do

they want to FORCE people to... do stuff.. force peoiple and organizations to change.. control freaks...

and/or they want validation

when deep in their "hearts" they know they are WRONG... they know they are... don't buy it they don't know that..

__
Well, yes, agreed - I did state upthread that I believe this is the deeper motivation driving them. Its become second nature.
 
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