Freedom From the Law and Religion

Gurucam

Well-known member
How do you manage to post hundreds of words and say NOTHING about the Gospel?

The Gospel is the heart and the center of the New Testament, yet you say NOTHING about it.

Seen that you have some confusion.

First, no Gospel is at the center of scriptures.

Second there is no 'the Gospel. Two gospel are mentioned.

Parables are the center of scriptures. Parables are no gospel.

The scriptures are not about any thing that can actually save and deliver anyone. The scriptures are not about any thing that can actually make one a child of God and a Christian.

Things that can save and/or deliver are available from a source totally outside of and unrelated to scriptures. This source is the Spirit of Truth.

The Gospel of salvation, deliverance, being a child of God and a Christian, is not in words. It is blowing in the wind. It is Spirit.

There is nothing in scriptures about the Gospel of salvation, deliverance, being a child of God and a Christian, except: throw out the scriptures and seek ye first the Spirit of Truth within your own heart or spirit and all things will be added.

The Spirit of Truth tells each person individually and privately precisely what he ought to know, pray for, say and do, in order to be saved, delivered, a child of God and a Christian. The Spirit of Truth does not deliver the same thing to any two people.

Therefore there can be no written and/or generalized format for this information and guidance which is literally one's Gospel of salvation and deliverance.

I have repeated this information several hundred times on this forum.

Seems that you want some written formula or set of firm laws which you can follow or obey in order to be saved, delivered and so become a child of God and a Christian. There are none. The primary basis of being saved, delivered, a child of God and a Christian is absolute freedom, liberty and justification to throw out and transgress the law and scriptures.

Fact is those who seek what you want get 'fooled-up. You get parables. You get thousand and thousands of words, that delivers nothing. You get this because your highest and best perception is the delusion that, a physically discernible scripture is absolutely necessary.

Just to keep the peace by appeasing the likes of you, a scripture of many words and no substance is provided.

God's righteousness is totally about Spirit and not at all about any thing in scriptures.

Matthew: 12 King James Version (KJV)
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven. Even blasphemy of the physical son of man Lord Jesus shall be forgiven. Only blasphemy of the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The above confirms in the clearest possible terms: Any and all things in scriptures can be denied and blasphemed and one shall remain in righteousness with God. There is no gospel of salvation and deliverance in scriptures. There are no prescriptions or definition of God's righteousness in scriptures. Transgression of all things in scriptures are permitted.

Scriptures are all foolishness. The written KJV N.T. was given because foolish and potentially violent and dangerous people wanted a scripture. They were not prepared to accept that All things must come to each person directly, individually and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth.

The KJV N.T. (scriptures) are a record of physical words and actions. These were delivered and done to appease unruly and potentially abusive people, (like yourself??). These people did want to hear abot the Spirit of Truth. They did not want to embrace the Spirit of Truth. However only the Spirit of Truth brings All Truth. These people did not want truth. They wanted foolishness. The Lord oblige them, in order to keep the peace so that he can deliver truth privately to those who sought truth.

It is confirmed in the KJV N.T. that: Scriptures, (i.e. the parables and ideas and laws,) are the letter which killeth. They are for those who are dead and want to say dead.

Fact is, the path to the source for God and His righteousness was delivered privately to only the disciples. This is what the Lord told them:

One has to drop scriptures and seek the Spirit of Truth within one's own heart. Then one has to be led into all of one's works by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do, even if one has to transgress the law and scriptures. This is the only path to righteousness with God. This and only this is how to do the will of God.

The above paragraph is the total message, in the KJV N.T., about the Gospel of salvation and deliverance. I have mention this a couple hundreds of times, already. I have expanded on this, based on revelations in the KJV N.T., to those who accepted it. .

Many thousand of words make up scriptures. Except for the above declaration and others about spirit and Spirit, these thousand of words are mostly parables and worthless.

Parables were given only for:
1. people who are not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.
2. people who do not have the eyes to see, the ears to hear and the hearts to understand.
3. people whose hearts are waxed gross
4. people who hath not and from them shall be taken away even that they hath.

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
 
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Ben Masada

New member
Religion in the NT means to worship. The NT believes there is a wrong kind of worship and a right to worship.

"If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world" (James 1:26-27).

Just to down the word religion is too broad. One secular definition is " a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith." In that respect atheism can qualify as a religion.

And James said that faith without the Law is like a body without its breath of life. Dead, if you understand what James meant in James 2:26.
 

Gurucam

Well-known member
And James said that faith without the Law is like a body without its breath of life. Dead, if you understand what James meant in James 2:26.

That is not correct.

James 2 King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


With respect to Spirit and Christians, 'works' means being led by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do even if one has to transgress the law of sin and death.

Works can also mean the works of the law of sin and death. However that is not for Christians. That is only for those who choose to remain under the law of sin and death:

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans: 3 1King James Version (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

To deny that there is righteousness without the law is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This is not forgivable. Such an act is a one way to ticked to a very sad place.

One who is led by Spirit has God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law of sin and death (and scriptures) and get no sin but instead be glorified by God.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Most of scriptures are parables. Matthews reported the Lord Jesus confirming that: Faith in parables is death. Also use of parables is death:

Parables were given only for:
1. people who are not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.
2. people who do not have the eyes to see, the ears to hear and the hearts to understand.
3. people whose hearts are waxed gross
4. people who hath not and from them shall be taken away even that they hath.

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.


The law of sin and death and scriptures (letters of all kind) are not for aspiring Christians and Christians. Only spirit and Spirit are for aspiring Christians and Christians.
 
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Ben Masada

New member
1 - "Who has made us able ministers of the New Testament; NOT of the letter (The Law) but of the Spirit: for the letter (Law) kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.

2 - Law and religion do not bring life, they bring death. Paul said, "For the letter (The Law) kills, but the Spirit brings life".

3 - The words "LAW" and "RELIGION" basically mean the same thing. When one is doing their religion, they are doing the law. When they are doing the law they are doing their religion. The words are related and mean the same thing.

4 - Paul wrote, "For I was without the law once; but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died and the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death" Romans 7:9, 10.

5 - Law based religions bring death, not life, according to the apostle Paul. Those that are on the Forum who are encouraging us to live by the commandments are ministers of death. I didn't say that, Paul is saying that. Did you hear him?

6 - WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO LIVE BY THE SPIRIT?

7 - To live by the Spirit is to live by the Gospel and not by religion or law. Religious people are preoccupied with sin. The Spirit led Christian is not concerned about sin, he believes that sin has ALREADY been abolished by his death with Christ.

"For he that is dead is freed from sin" Romans 6:7. When Jesus died on the cross we died with him. It is not untill you are free from sin that you can have power over sin.

8 - When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb we walked out with him. This is the beginning of God's new world order and the beginning of our new humanity. "If any man be "IN CHRIST" he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17. God now sees those that have believed on his Son Jesus Christ as new creations in Jesus Christ. It doesn't matter what you believe about yourself or what others believe about you. What matters is how God sees you. God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Not because of what we are, but because of what Christ is and what he has accomplished on our behalf.

1 - What kills you in the Law is not the Law but yourself when you break it. Observe the Law and it won't kill you. I guarantee you.

2 - Religion yes, it has been proved that kills. Remember Jim Jone? That's a good example. But from observing the Law, you will enjoy life to the full. I guarantee you.

3 - You are absolutely wrong. Jesus himself said that the only way to achieve salvation is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. Read Luke 16:29-31.

4 - Paul a Hellenist Jew and, Hellenist Jews were amoral. When Paul read in the Torah and found out that he was serveing sin in his flesh, his sinful condition started killing him because he found out he was addicted to repressed homosexual feelings. (Rom. 7:8-25)

5 - You are teaching a religion of crimes. Those who give any mind to you will end up paying for their crimes in jails. That's the kind of people jails are crowded with. Visit them and you will know what I am talking about.

6 - It means to follow Jesus' teaching to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

7 - Whose gospel, the gospel of Paul? That's why he considered himself dead. Because he was serving sin in his flesh. (Rom. 7:8-25) It must be according to the gospel of Jesus which was according to "Moses" aka the Law. That's what Jesus said in Luke 16:29-31.

8 - Jesus never walked out of the grave because he was a Jew and, to do so, it would be to walk against his own gospel. Read II Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9.

9 - And the gospel of Jesus says that any one who listens to "Moses" aka the Law will have guaranteed salvation.

10 - If that had to be according to your gospel, the Prophets of the Most High would have proved liars. Jesus is dead, my friend. And he did nothing against the Law and the Prophets. Read Matthew 5:17-19.
 

Ben Masada

New member
That is not correct.

James 2 King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Thank you! You have rather proved I was right about James 2:26. Otherwise, you are not familiar with your own NT.
 

Gurucam

Well-known member
Ben Masada,

You quoted:
James 2 King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


The line immediately before is:

Romans: 3 1King James Version (KJV)
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Rahab was justified by works. However this works was not the works of upholding the law. This was the works of transgressing the law.

The point in this example is that: Rahab lied and that was O.K.. She transgressed the law of sin and death and that was O.K.. She transgressed a law in the ten commandments and that was O.K. (that was justified) because she was a Christian.

A Christian is one who is led by the Spirit of Jesus and therefore have freedom and justification to transgress the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments) and get no sin but instead be glorified by God. In this example Rahab was an example of a practicing authentic Christian.

Rahab lied to people who esteemed the law of sin and death and who were tracking down two Christians, to persecute them. She knowingly lied about the direction in which the Christians went. She was glorified by God for what she did.

The example is not that Christians (Rahab) do not transgress the ten commandments. The example is exactly the opposite. The example is that Christians (Rahab) do transgress the ten commandments so as to unconditionally serve the Spirit of Truth.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Te reason that the Holy Spirit does not speak of himself is because the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ and his Gospel John 15:26.

You do not glorify Christ ad his Gospel.

Indeed the Holy Spirit glorifies the gospel of Jesus because the gospel of Jesus is according to the Tanach.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Those that are on the Forum who are encouraging us to live by the commandments are ministers of death.

If someone on the forum said if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments would that make them a minister of death?
 

Gurucam

Well-known member
To Robert Pate:

If someone on the forum said if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments would that make them a minister of death?

1. Indeed would you? Robert Pate would you teach the scriptures to those seeking life? The Spirit giveth life. The New Testament is not the book, i.e. not the letters.

The book called the New Testament is a book. This is compilation of letter which killeth. It is a physical, 'see' and temporal thing. For the past 2000 years this book has had many reincarnation and evolutions. Each version had a temporal life span.

The New Testament is about Spirit. This is about looking to things that are 'not seen' (i.e. not physical) and eternal. This is the promise that God made to Abraham.

The Spirit does not deliver things in the scriptures, to Christians. When God instructed Abraham to kill his son (and transgress the thou shall not kill commandment) he (Abraham) did not get that in scriptures. In fact that instruction from God required Abraham to go against scriptures.

Christians are no less than Abraham. They do not get their instruction from scriptures nor do their instruction conform to and/or uphold things in scriptures.

2. Jamie, The ten commandments are the law of sin and death.

Would you teach the law of sin and death to one who is seeking life. Would you seek to put one who is seeking life, under the law of sin and death. Would you do these things when it is confirmed that the Spirit giveth life and:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 
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Gurucam

Well-known member
Jesus said, "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17)
There are two sets of commandments in the KJV N.T.

Those who are 'the dead' and want to continue to be 'the dead' use the law of sin and death. Under that Old system, all fall short of the glory of God. That commandment was onto death. It killeth. And that led to the need for a New approach, which was without the law of sin and death that giveth life eternal.

This led to the New Commandments for those who seek eternal life: Those who want life eternal, use the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes one free from the law of sin and death. Only this Spirit is Lord and gives life.

Hebrews: 8 KJV N.T.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


One commandment (first and Old one) are the ten commandments. This is the first one. They were were engraved in stone tablets. Those were glorious. However, 2000 years ago, they were done away with, for Christians. The Jews seemed to have continue to esteem and keep themselves under those laws which were engraved in stone tablet.

2 Corinthians; 3 KJV N.T.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


The glory of those ten commandments which were engraved in stone tables were to be done away. And indeed for Christians, i.e. those who embraced the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that glory was done away. There is no more glory in the law of sin and death for Christians. There is no glorifying of the law of sin and death for Christians.

The old and first commandments (which was done away with for aspiring Christians and Christians) is righteousness of God that is with the law of sin and death.

This is the old command that is for 'the dead' who want to stay 'the dead' . . . they are free to do so. Those who use this system have one life on earth then judgment. They do not have eternal life. Under that Old system they all fall short of the glory of God. They have no further life (with God).

Romans 3 King James Version (KJV)
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
23 all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


The above defines the curse of the Old system, i.e. the law of sin and death, etc.. This gave rise to the need for a New system. One that gives life everlasting (with God):

Galatians 3 King James Version (KJV)
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:


The above is the other and New system. This is righteousness of God that is without the law. This is for those who seek eternal life. Those under this system are Christians or Saints. They are not under the law of sin and death. They have God given freedom. liberty and justification to transgress the law of sin and death and get no sin but instead be glorified by God. Christians or Saints are not judged. They judge the world.

1 Corinthians: 6 kjv n.t.
2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?


Romans 3 KJV N.T.
21 But now (since 2000 odd years ago) the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


Righteousness of God that is without the law is the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus:

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Those under the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law of sin and death. They are free from the law of sin and death.

Acts 13: King James Version (KJV)
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


Jamie you are in a very sad state and unfortunate predicament. Not because you esteem the law of sin and death. Even though that choice will deliver you into sin and death, that is your choice to make freely.

You are in a sad place because you came among Christians as a false brethren and spy to return them to bondage under the law. This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and is not forgivable in this world or in any world to come.

Your probably do not know that fools rush in where angels fear to thread.

You are unaware of your own spirit. You are quite literally, 'the dead who is burying your dead counterparts' with your teaching which are only for 'the dead'. Indeed you are a false brethren unawares who came among Christians to return them to bondage under the law of sin and death.

Galatians 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage, (under the law of sin and death).


Of course your heart is waxed gross and you are not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. Clearly that is your funeral. However you are trying to bury as many as you can with you.

I will do my best to protect the innocent. Indeed, for those readers who might be inclined to take you seriously, in the least manner, I provide the following KJV N.T. revelation.

The following clearly confirms that one who has remained under the law of sin and death are in bondage and Christ has benefited them nothing:

Galatians: 5 KJV N.T.
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


You are totally out of place on a Christian forum. You are a spy. You are a false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus

Your place is among Jews (those who still esteem the law of sin and death). The likes of who crucified the Lord Jesus and continue to crucify Him by crucifying His New Testament teaching and message.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
od and the sinfulness
Yes, I realize that is the gospel according to Robert Pate, but that is not what Jesus said.

Jesus taught the law. He did not teach salvation by grace through faith. He left that up to the apostels.

The law reveals the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man.
 

Gurucam

Well-known member
Jamie and those who might be inclined to take Jamie seriously. Beware.

Matthews: 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.


Christians are those who followed the Lord Jesus. They embraced the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes one free from the law of sin and death. They are Saints.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


The dead who are burying their dead are you guys who esteem and promote the law of sin and death.

Christians/Saints will not be judged. They will be judging you.

1 Corinthians King James Version (KJV)
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Saints/Christians are those who have followed the Lord Jesus in the regeneration when He (the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory), they also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. This is when the Lord return in a physical body to separate sheep from goats.

This is confirmed in:


Matthews: 19 KJV N.T.
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


You guys are the dead who bury your fellow man in the earth with their dead physical bodies to wait on the lord Jesus to return in a physical body to rise out of the earth, like Lazarus. You are not yet Christians. You cannot be the Saints/Christians who return from heaven with the Lord to judge the world.

Only those who (while they lived as men on earth) have abandon the law of sin and death and embraced the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus are Christians/Saints.

They differ in no way from the Lord Jesus Christ. They became 'in Christ' during their life time. When they died on earth, they rise in three day (like the Lord Jesus Christ) to be like angels/saints in spirit heaven, with the Lord Jesus. Only these are Christians/Saints. These are the ones who will return with the Lord Jesus and join the Lord in judging the world.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Matthews: 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.


Christians are those who followed the Lord Jesus. They embraced the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes one free from the law of sin and death. They are Saints.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


The dead who are burying their dead are you guys who esteem and promote the law of sin and death.

Christians/Saints will not be judged. They will be judging you.

Matthews: 19 KJV N.T.
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

1 Corinthians King James Version (KJV)
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

The law was our school master that brought us to Christ, so the law is not all that bad. The law convicts sinners of sin and causes them to repent. The law is for sinners, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.
Christians are not under the law, they are under grace.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The law reveals the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man.

The law reveals the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man and the need for man to stop sinning.

Just because a man commits adultery does not mean that he should continue to do so. The law is a warning sign.
 
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