It's circular reasoning, you quote the law to prove the law has been abolished.
:kookoo:
Freedom From the Law and Religion
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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It's circular reasoning, you quote the law to prove the law has been abolished.
:kookoo:
You're the one quoting the law, it's you who can't turn loose of the law.
You can't be judged if there is no law.
Which proves there must be law.
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17 NKJV)
Where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 7:7-10.
This is why God can see the Christian as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
With the law there is sin. Is that why we need the law, to point out our sin?
Romans 7:13 NASB - 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
There should be a law against Pate talking about freedom from law and religion
Paul said that we are free from the law. To be free from the law is to be free from sin.
You need to read the Bible.
Robert Pate. If you are free from your sin then are you free from the law?
If you observe the law are you under it?
If you love God and your neighbor have you sinned? Not if you do in truth.
But all have sinned (Romans 3:23 NASB).
If you are trying to become acceptable or pleasing to God by the law, then you are under the law and will be judged by the law.
There is no way to become acceptable or pleasing to God by the law, as a person still has sin without Jesus.
All who are outside of Christ are still in their sins.
But those who are in Christ, God sees them as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.
2 Corinthians 4 King James Version (KJV)
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Stop looking to the written scriptures. That is a 'seen' things.
The Spirit of Truth brings All Truth and that Spirit was available only after the Lord Jesus went away by crucifixion and rising to heaven. The Spirit of Truth is a 'not seen' thing.
The physical, 'seen' and temporal Lord Jesus did not bring any truth. He did not give even the disciples truth, for they could not bear it. Their hearts were waxed gross. Only the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal Son of God, Lord Jesus brought All Truth . . . only after the Lord rose to heaven, after His crucifixion.
John 16 King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Fact is All Truth which is the basis of salvation, deliverance and Christianity cannot be delivered in physically spoken words and cannot be physically written down. Therefore you will not find any truth in the written scriptures.
All Truth must be spiritually/intuitively discerned by each person from the Spirit of Truth.
2 Corinthians 3 King James Version (KJV)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
'The letter' include the law of sin and death but is not limited to the law of sin and death. The letter means all physically spoken and physically written scriptures.
John: 7 KJV N.T.
15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Clearly in the above 'knowing letters' means knowing the written scriptures. Therefore the letter means scriptures.
Therefore "for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" means that the scriptures killeth but the Spirit of Truth giveth life.
It is very high time that distortion of truth be stopped.
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Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
At least recognize that there are two commandments.
1. There is righteousness of God with the law, for those who choose to esteem and use the law (even in the slightest way).
2. And there is righteous of God that is without the law for those who have embraced the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
No one can do the first commandment, it was faulty:
Romans 3:23King James Version (KJV)
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
The second commandment did away with the first commandment for Christians (but certainly not for the Jews and others who choose to stay under the law of sin and death):
The first commandment was done away with for those who embraced the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which gives one freedom and justification to transgress the law of sin and death and get no sin.
Acts 13 King James Version (KJV)
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
The first covenant is the law of sin and death. It was faulty and was replaced by the second.
Hebrews:8 KJV N.T.
7. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
It is a grave and unforgivable sin to preach and promote the law of sin and death among aspiring Christians and Christians:
Galatians 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage i.e. under the law of sin and death (the ten commandments).
One must understand that "what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law'. Therefore one who wants to preach and promote the law of sin and death can and must do so only among those who are under the law of sin and death.
Aspiring Christians and Christians are not under the law of sin and death. They are in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. They are under Spirit.
If one comes among aspiring Christians and Christians and preach and promote the law of sin and death one is blaspheming the Holy Spirit and that is not forgivable at any place or time. The penalty is very severe. The same applies to one who comes on a Christian thread and preach and promote the law of sin and death.
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Religion is law based. The words "Law" and "Religion" mean the same thing.
Paul said to be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.
The Spirit brings life, the law kills, 2 Corinthians 3:6.
Read it again, that's not what it says.
The scriptures are very important because they reveal Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is the law that has been abolished, not the scriptures.
Clearly the scriptures have a use. However the scriptures do not reveal the gospel of the Lord Jesus. The gospel of the Lord Jesus is about 'life' (eternal life). Only the Spirit giveth life (eternal).
The scriptures themselves confirm that Spirit giveth life. In fact the scriptures themselves confirm that the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life.
The question is, 'are the written scriptures the letter which killeth'. The scriptures can and do give all kind of Historic information . . . and it is useful as historic information.
Also the scriptures are useful as an instruction manual. It tell you where and how to get Truth which leads to life everlasting. This is through the Spirit of Truth. The gospel of the Lord Jesus is about the 'not seen' Spirit and not the scriptures. The gospel of the Lord Jesus is Truth as obtained from the Spirit of Truth . . . totally out side of and apart from, the scriptures.
Scriptures are not given as a source for Truth which gives salvation, deliverance and eternal life. The scriptures have no such truth. Truth which gives salvation, deliverance and eternal life comes only from the Spirit of Truth.
If you believe that the scriptures is more than an instruction manual, the very scripture will killeth you (spiritually). The scriptures are simply an instruction manual to tell you how and were to get Truth which can save, deliver, give you an eternal life and make you a Christian.
To esteem the instruction manual is to court and earn spiritual death. Yet at least a billion people esteem the scriptures (the instruction manual) and never seek direct intuitive communion with the Spirit of Truth. This is how the scriptures killeth. It killeth when people take it to be more than simply an instruction manual.
Therefore do not confuse the scriptures, which is simply a Historic record and an instruction manual with the Spirit of Truth, Who brings All Truth and gives eternal life.
Fact is one can read and otherwise hear the scriptures every day, for one's entire life time and still never get eternal life because one has not achieved direct intuitive communion with the living Spirit of Truth through one's own heart or spirit.
The statement, 'the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life' means that if one use the scriptures as a historic record and an instruction manual, that is fine. That is O.K.
However if one use the scriptures in any other way they killeth. The scriptures only confirm the path that one must take in order to get eternal life.
The scriptures can and will kill you spiritually, i.e. deny you eternal life if: you do not simply use the scriptures to learn the path to eternal life, then throw them away and actually seek individual and direct communion with the Spirit of Truth Who brings All Truth and gives eternal life.
Once you achieve personal, direct communion with the Spirit of Truth, that Spirit is your Lord and when you are led by that Spirit you are a Christian and you have absolute freedom, liberty and justification.
2 Corinthians: 3 KJV N.T.
17 Now (i.e. since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Look to things that are 'not seen' and eternal, i.e. the Spirit of Truth. Do not look to things that are 'seen' and temporal, i.e. the scriptures. The KJV N.T. as a written/physical thing has been rewritten many times over. This has rendered the actual and original KJV N.T. temporal. However things (information) from the Spirit of Truth is eternal, untouchable.
The source for Truth and your only protection from corruption is the Spirit of Truth. Not any scriptures.
The Lord Jesus and Christianity is about connecting you to Truth, the only way possible. That is by connecting you intuitively and directly to the living Spirit of Truth. This is the message in the KJV N.T. Once you get this message and adopt it you can and must throw away the KJV N.T..
Scriptures are like the operational manual for a T.V. it is used simply to learn how to operated the T.V. then it is discarded. After a couple week most people can even find the manual.
One must use the scriptures to learn how to get truth directly and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth, then, the scriptures must be thrown out. To keep it and use it as any kind of guide will killeth (stump/stunt) one continuing spiritual actualization.
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