Foundation.

[glorydaz]

Obedience of faith means faith with obedience.

No, if that's what it meant, that's what it would have said. :kookoo:

Of or With....Of or With.....The love of God or the love with God.....The Queen of Hearts or the Queen with hearts. Shall we go on?



Faith is the only obedience that saves. We obey the Gospel by believing. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans 16:26KJV But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

2 Thessalonians 1:8KJV In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:​

 

[God's Truth]

Where in the preaching of Jesus does he mention that some of them were cut off?

Romans 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,


I gave you scripture and you need to explain why God cut off and hardened some Jews while Jesus was on earth. YOU SAY God ENABLES people to hear, and that they cannot hear unless God enables them to hear. So tell me why some were hardened if they couldn't hear anyway?

 

[God's Truth]

No, if that's what it meant, that's what it would have said. :kookoo:

Of or With....Of or With.....The love of God or the love with God.....The Queen of Hearts or the Queen with hearts. Shall we go on?



Faith is the only obedience that saves. We obey the Gospel by believing. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans 16:26KJV But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

2 Thessalonians 1:8KJV In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:​

Faith without obedience is dead. Period.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Romans 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,


I gave you scripture and you need to explain why God cut off and hardened some Jews while Jesus was on earth. YOU SAY God ENABLES people to hear, and that they cannot hear unless God enables them to hear. So tell me why some were hardened if they couldn't hear anyway?

Romans 11:17 is not speaking of the Jews of Jesus day.

Paul says they were broken off. Does that mean they had ears to hear before being broken off? No.

They were broken off from the Olive tree. That means they were broken off from the covenants. Even if it were talking about the Jews of Jesus' day, being part of the covenants did not give them ears to hear.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Faith without obedience is dead. Period.

There is no faith that doesn't produce obedience. Only faith can produce obedience. Obedience is impossible without faith.

 

[God's Truth]

Faith alone preachers need to answer the question, and that question is WHAT do you say we only have to believe? Try to explain that one without mentioning Jesus dying for our sins. Why would ANYONE believe Jesus died for their sins and they not repent of those sins? Nonsense. Who would ever get that Jesus died for sins we have no plan on stopping?

 

[ClimateSanity]

Faith alone preachers need to answer the question, and that question is WHAT do you say we only have to believe? Try to explain that one without mentioning Jesus dying for our sins. Why would ANYONE believe Jesus died for their sins and they not repent of those sins? Nonsense. Who would ever get that Jesus died for sins we have no plan on stopping?

If Jesus never died for your sins, you would never realize you sinned.

 

[God's Truth]

There is no faith that doesn't produce obedience. Only faith can produce obedience. Obedience is impossible without faith.

Firstly, I have NOT said faith does not produce obedience. That is just you scrambling around and getting out of focus.

Secondly, we do not even have to have faith to obey! That is WHY the Jews who got cut off---got cut off---it is because they did not have faith in God.

 

[God's Truth]

If Jesus never died for your sins, you would never realize you sinned.

What?! That is nonsense. Paul says had he not had the law that said what sins were, he would not know what sins were. THAT was before Christ dying for our sins!

 

[ClimateSanity]

What?! That is nonsense. Paul says had he not had the law that said what sins were, he would not know what sins were. THAT was before Christ dying for our sins!

It takes both.

Without law, there is no knowledge of sin.

Without regeneration, you heart deludes you regarding sin. Without the death of Jesus, there is no possibility of the regeneration of the heart.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Firstly, I have NOT said faith does not produce obedience. That is just you scrambling around and getting out of focus.

Secondly, we do not even have to have faith to obey! That is WHY the Jews who got cut off---got cut off---it is because they did not have faith in God.

Without faith, obedience is impossible.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 11:17 is not speaking of the Jews of Jesus day.

Of course they are the Jews that were broken off during Jesus' day!

Paul says they were broken off. Does that mean they had ears to hear before being broken off? No.

IT MEANS THEY COULD have heard and then been given faith!

John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

 

[ClimateSanity]

Firstly, I have NOT said faith does not produce obedience. That is just you scrambling around and getting out of focus.

Secondly, we do not even have to have faith to obey! That is WHY the Jews who got cut off---got cut off---it is because they did not have faith in God.

You said faith without works is dead. That's what I replied to.

A faith that does not produce works is no faith at all. That's what James is saying.

He is telling his audience that they are deluded if they think they have faith if there are no works produced by that faith.

 

[God's Truth]

Without faith, obedience is impossible.

I can give you scripture where Jesus explains that if you do not believe---then all you have to do is obey and you will have faith.

See John 7:17.

 

[ClimateSanity]

You said faith without works is dead. That's what I replied to.

A faith that does not produce works is no faith at all. That's what James is saying.

He is telling his audience that they are deluded if they think they have faith if there are no works produced by that faith.

The Jews were not broken off during Jesus' day. You have no verse.

 

[God's Truth]

You said faith without works is dead. That's what I replied to.

A faith that does not produce works is no faith at all. That's what James is saying.

He is telling his audience that they are deluded if they think they have faith if there are no works produced by that faith.

Faith without works is dead. What does that have to do with YOU SAYING God enables people to hear and have faith? What does it have to do with being able to obey? You are losing focus again.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Of course they are the Jews that were broken off during Jesus' day!



IT MEANS THEY COULD have heard and then been given faith!

John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

It does not mean they could have heard and believed. It says no such thing.

 

[glorydaz]

And you by (wrong) implication, are saying that faith is inherently human, and not a gift from God at all.

Yikes!

No, I'm just not confused about faith, and the faith that comes from God and our faith in God.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.​

If you're still confused, you need only look at Abraham.

Romans 4:18-22 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Faith without works is dead. What does that have to do with YOU SAYING God enables people to hear and have faith? What does it have to do with being able to obey? You are losing focus again.

You are showing a heart with no understanding. That's what is going on. You have no ears to hear.

 

[God's Truth]

The Jews were not broken off during Jesus' day. You have no verse.

Paul says so. I gave you scripture.