Forgiving Others

[Lucky]

Should we forgive only those who ask for forgiveness? Tell me why you think we should or should not.

 

[ebenz47037]

Normally, I would agree with Knight and Poly on their position. "No. You should only forgive the repentent."

But, in a case, where you're anger is affecting your life, you need to forgive the person for your own sanity.

 

[Melody]

Re: Forgiving Others

Originally posted by Lucky

Should we forgive only those who ask for forgiveness? Tell me why you think we should or should not.

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

This does not say that one waits for a request for forgiveness before forgiveness is granted.

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Jam 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
Jam 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
Jam 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Unforgiveness does not harm the one that commited the offense, it harms the one that carries it. Forgiveness releases the victim not the offender.

That offense still stands between God and the offender, but we are not responsible for other people's sins in the eyes of God, only our own.

As David said, Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.

 

[adajos]

Lucky:

Forgive in what sense? Dictionary.com

for·give ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fr-gv, fôr-)
v. for·gave, (-gv) for·giv·en, (-gvn) for·giv·ing, for·gives
v. tr.
1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
2. To renounce anger or resentment against.

Do you mean forgive as in definition 1 or 2 or both? I think it's possible to cease being angry or holding a grudge while still not excusing them for their offense.

An example of that would be a woman whose husband cheats on her. She can renounce her anger towards him, but not excuse him from the penalty of committing the wrong. The penalty might be that she doesn't trust him, or that she will divorce him for example. Thus she hasn't excused him for his actions, but she has forgiven him in another sense.

 

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Forgive, but don't forget.

But how is this true forgiveness?

 

[cattyfan]

A woman may forgive a man for his infidelity, but if he is not sorry or repentant for his trespass, is that sin forgiven?

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by ebenz47037

Normally, I would agree with Knight and Poly on their position. "No. You should only forgive the repentent."

But, in a case, where you're anger is affecting your life, you need to forgive the person for your own sanity.

I can see where you are coming from. I've had similiar situations but if anger is affecting your life over something that somebody did to you, you can choose not to allow the memories of it to disable you in any way and instead choose to live a healthy life. This doesn't mean that you have to forgive them when they've never repented over it. It simply means you choose to rise above it not allowing what that person did to have any affect on your life.
When Christians relay a message that people can be forgiven for their actions, though they haven't asked for repentance, or realized the damage they've done, it gives them the idea that there is no consequences that will have to be paid if they do wrong. They expect that forgiveness will be given to them no matter what.

 

[Melody]

Originally posted by cattyfan

A woman may forgive a man for his infidelity, but if he is not sorry or repentant for his trespass, is that sin forgiven?

It is by her, He is still responsible for his own offense and must answer to God and his own conscience.

 

[JoyfulRook]

Re: Re: Forgiving Others

Re: Re: Forgiving Others

Originally posted by Melody

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

This does not say that one waits for a request for forgiveness before forgiveness is granted.

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Jam 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
Jam 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
Jam 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

As David said, Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.

Funny how every single verse you said was written by a kingdom believer. Try these verses:

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

So instead of it being WORKS, it is because God has forgiven you already.

If he repents then shall you forgive.

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by Poly

I can see where you are coming from. I've had similiar situations but if anger is affecting your life over something that somebody did to you, you can choose not to allow the memories of it to disable you in any way and instead choose to live a healthy life. This doesn't mean that you have to forgive them when they've never repented over it. It simply means you choose to rise above it not allowing what that person did to have any affect on your life.
When Christians relay a message that people can be forgiven for their actions, though they haven't asked for repentance, or realized the damage they've done, it gives them the idea that there is no consequences that will have to be paid if they do wrong. They expect that forgiveness will be given to them no matter what.

So basically forget, not forgive. :thumb:

 

[cattyfan]

quote:
Originally posted by cattyfan

A woman may forgive a man for his infidelity, but if he is not sorry or repentant for his trespass, is that sin forgiven?

quote
originally response by Melody:

It is by her, He is still responsible for his own offense and must answer to God and his own conscience.

good answer. that's what I was taught, as well.

 

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

So basically forget, not forgive. :thumb:

When did Jesus ask the Father to forgive them, when they repented for killing him on the cross, or beforehand, when they weren't aware of what they were doing?

Shouldn't one do the same?

Or was Jesus just a wuss?

 

[Melody]

Re: Re: Re: Forgiving Others

Re: Re: Re: Forgiving Others

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Funny how every single verse you said was written by a kingdom believer. Try these verses:

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

So instead of it being WORKS, it is because God has forgiven you already.

If he repents then shall you forgive.

I think that you are still missing the point. If I forgive someone that has injured me it is because Christ has already forgiven me and I want Christ to continue to forgive me.

If I forgive someone of an offence that offence is finished between them and me, that does not necessarily mean that the offense is finished between the offender and God. The offender is still answerable to God for the offense.

I think that there is a mistaken idea that if I forgive someone of an offense that God automatically forgives the offender also.

 

[Aimiel]

My Thoughts on Forgiveness

My Thoughts on Forgiveness

I was taught that when someone cuts us off on the expressway, that's a tiny offense, which, if unforgiven, will clog the path a little bit. Someone cuts in front of us in the checkout line, that might be a little worse, depending on how busy your day is. We don't realize that is we don't forgive men these things, that our prayer, on its way to The Lord, goes up our 'chimney' and tries to reach The Lord, but can't get past all the petty little things which have now not only completely clogged up our chimney, but the smoke of our own sin has now clouded our heart, mind and lives with critical faultfinding. We've become stumblingblocks, instead of being the center of hospitality, hope, faith and forgiveness that The Lord is, and His People should represent. We need to ask The Great Chimneysweeper for some help with our lives.

 

[Aimiel]

We can forgive, which is human. God being able to forget our sin, that's divine. When Christians forget one another's sin, and worship The Lord together, that is when He is pleased, to see Himself in us.

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by beanieboy

When did Jesus ask the Father to forgive them, when they repented for killing him on the cross, or beforehand, when they weren't aware of what they were doing?

Shouldn't one do the same?

Or was Jesus just a wuss?

He was saying they don't know that I'm God. And God has the Power to for give sins anyway:
John 5:27
and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

 

[adajos]

Dread Helm:

Regarding Christ's "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing" comment:

He was saying they don't know that I'm God. And God has the Power to for give sins anyway:
John 5:27
and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

Your point is irrelevant.

Answer me this (yes or no answers would be sufficient):

1. Were those who crucified Christ repentant of their sin of executing an innocent?
2. Did Christ forgive them?

 

[the Sibbie]

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
Matthew 18:21-35

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, "Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, "Pay me what you owe!'
29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet[4] and begged him, saying, "Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'[5]
30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done.
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, "You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me.
33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?'
34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."[6]

This situation demonstrates how God will forgive us. Notice that the first servant asked the master forgiveness (well in this case he actually asked for some extra time, notice he still held himself responsible for that debt.) Therefore the master forgave him beyond even what the servant asked. But before the servant asked for forgiveness the master held the man accountable for his debt.

Then in the second half of the parable, the first servant confronted (not in the best manner) his fellow servant about repayment of a debt. The fellow servant also asked for extra time, but the first proudly refused to forgive his fellow servant. Therefore when the master heard what happened, he revoked the forgiveness that he had given to the first servant and once again held that servant accountable for his debt.

This is the way the Father deals with our sin. He holds us accountable, but will forgive us if we ask. But if we refuse to forgive others if they ask, our Father will once again remember our sin.

This parable doesn't say forgive others even if they don't ask. It shows that the debtor should be held accountable. Even if the master didn't completely forgive the debt, I don't think that would be wrong. The master would have been wrong not to at least give the first servant more time. But the master out of the compasion of his heart, forgave the whole debt. (I just wanted to clarify because I don't want to send the message that we don't need to repay our debts if we ask forgiveness. Ha...that would be silly.)

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by beanieboy

When did Jesus ask the Father to forgive them, when they repented for killing him on the cross, or beforehand, when they weren't aware of what they were doing?

Shouldn't one do the same?

Or was Jesus just a wuss?

Jesus asked the Father....

Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” And they divided His garments and cast lots. - Luke 23:34

The Roman soldiers clearly knew they were crucifying an innocent man or at very least a man that their leader (Pilate) said had done no crime (Luke 23:4).

So Jesus wasn't asking the Father to forgive them for what they were doing, yet for what they DIDN'T know they were doing.

Now..... what were the Roman Soldiers doing that they weren't aware of????

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Re: My Thoughts on Forgiveness

Re: My Thoughts on Forgiveness

Originally posted by Aimiel

I was taught that when someone cuts us off on the expressway, that's a tiny offense, which, if unforgiven, will clog the path a little bit. Someone cuts in front of us in the checkout line, that might be a little worse, depending on how busy your day is. We don't realize that is we don't forgive men these things, that our prayer, on its way to The Lord, goes up our 'chimney' and tries to reach The Lord, but can't get past all the petty little things which have now not only completely clogged up our chimney, but the smoke of our own sin has now clouded our heart, mind and lives with critical faultfinding. We've become stumblingblocks, instead of being the center of hospitality, hope, faith and forgiveness that The Lord is, and His People should represent. We need to ask The Great Chimneysweeper for some help with our lives.

These things are not sinful.

Therefore when a person cuts us off on the freeway or jumps in line at the grocery store we should look past the offense or we will become bitter people. But these things are not sinful therefore the question of forgiveness and repentance doesn't really apply.