ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness

Nanja

Well-known member
There's your problem with GM, he looks in the mirror - the right mirror - and sees 2 Corinthians 3's:

18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

Try it some time, Nanj.



There is no evidence that GM has been conformed to to the Image of the Lord 2 Cor. 3:18.

After almost two years of reading his posts, it is evident that he maintains that his salvation
is based upon his placing his faith in Christ. That's just another works salvation also warned about by Paul:

Gal. 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you
than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

What's that "other" gospel?

It's a gospel of works Paul spoke of:

Eph. 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast
.

~~~~~
 

Nanja

Well-known member
You say that because I reject "Hyper-Calvinism." No thanks, I want
no part of your "False doctrine."

Nah, it's not that. You love your false doctrine: thinking that your works of believing
and placing your faith in Christ, etc. is what will save you. But it will not Eph. 2:8-9.

~~~~~
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Nah, it's not that. You love your false doctrine: thinking that your works of believing
and placing your faith in Christ, etc. is what will save you. But it will not Eph. 2:8-9.

~~~~~

Believing is not a work. I always find it interesting when someone quotes one verse and ignores another. Why is it that you will not believe what Paul says in one place, but you do in another. :think:

Romans 4:4-5
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​


When I see it's raining outside, I had nothing to do with making it rain, but I was persuaded it was raining when I felt the rain drops and saw them splattering on the ground.
 

Danoh

New member
Nah, it's not that. You love your false doctrine: thinking that your works of believing
and placing your faith in Christ, etc. is what will save you. But it will not Eph. 2:8-9.

~~~~~

Good one; this notion of yours that believing is a work.

Not only are you obviously reading Calvin's error into things, but in your failure to understand why faith; which is not a work, is the only "condition" God will accept from an unregenerated person.

Because "faith" by virtue of the fact of its being "the substance of things hoped for" - "the evidence of things not seen" Heb. 11:1, places a burden on the lost they cannot fathom - the burden of believing the otherwise "foolish" notion in his mind, that the Cross of Christ alone solved for the sin problem.

Guess Who Alone the Glory of the Cross points to by this means?

By this act of a lost man hoping against hope; against his very nature?

The lost man's natural inclination is to find the Cross "foolishness unto him."

But that is what God puts before him - this fool idea [from where the lost man looks at things] that some Jew two thousand years ago died on a Cross for him!

In my best Ricky Ricardo voice "Its jus so ridiculous!"

But the fact of this reasoning remains to this very day - Acts 26:

8. Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
9. I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

1 Corinthians 1:

21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the
foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28. And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29. That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31. That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Why did God do this this way? This saving of men through what is to them "the foolishness of preaching"?

2 Corinthians 4:

6. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

In a seeming contrast to that, there is this - 2 Thessalonians 2:

11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14. Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

From what beginning?

1 Thessalonians 2:

13. For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

In light of that rumor they had been beguiled by - that they had missed the Lord's coming and their gathering together unto them, 2:2 - the Apostle Paul is reassuring them; that such was not the case; that from the very moment in which they had believed, God had chosen them to salvation "from the wrath to come" through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth; that theirs was a done deal - in - His - Son - made - so - by- the - Spirit.

This being an aspect of the Apostle Paul's "remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things" 2:5 - is Body truth all the way back from 1 and 2 Thessalonians and into Ephesians...

Ephesians 1:

13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

God's condition had been "believe my Son died for your sins" and I will, by My Spirit, set you apart from this wrath to come, from the very moment in which you believed.

I sincerely doubt you will see this, though. It does not fit your need to fit your need to see things the way you do, into them.

You see it as robbery, I know.
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
it would be nice to discuss why someone might not say the Lord's prayer
and
I think it would be on topic
Those who believe coming before a jealous God of justice and judgment who demands a blood sacrifice might be the same folks who don't accept Jesus' God as he specified in the "Lord's Prayer."

I see Jesus as belonging to the ancient biblical tradition of a God of mercy who wants us to come before him with repentance and forgiveness only.

The spilling of blood on the altar for payment of sin got its start from Aaron and the priestly cult he stood for.

The "Jesus saved humankind from sin by dying on the cross" is another opposite tradition that is also found weaved in and out from Genesis onto the New Testament.

It's theological expression wasn't worked out until about 900 years after Jesus had long been crucified.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Nah, it's not that. You love your false doctrine: thinking that your works of believing
and placing your faith in Christ, etc. is what will save you. But it will not Eph. 2:8-9.

~~~~~

Folly...grace through faith....cause and effect. Both are gifts of God.
You can have grace without faith which is the Nanja B57 argument or you can have faith without grace which is the freewill [in many cases presumption] argument. But God's way is Free grace working [made effectual] through faith.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
I've never stated it did. What I have stated is Yeshua's Words as found in John 15 which are a requirement to remain in Him for salvation. My point has always been that Yeshua does not reside in lawlessness so we can't reside in lawlessness either. Paul was irritated by his inability to refrain from doing something he knew was sinful and he asked Yeshua to take it from him. The answer to his request was "My grace is sufficient." We're weak but that's okay. What isn't okay is wanton and willful disobedience.

What a neck you have, accusing Paul who ever taught that sin shall not have dominion over us was tormented by a sin which had gotten dominion over him...you claim.

It's rubbish.

After YEARS of accusing OSASers of using Paul's grace as a licence for sin the truth is out. YOU are using the law [and everybody including Paul's inability to keep the law] as a licence to indulge yourself in your little fleshpot, the sin which has beset you...your darling.

You could get victory over it but you don't want to.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Derailing is like saying let's talk (post) about something else, I don't mind a side trip in a thread but extended side trip isn't right.

We need to put some effort in coming back to forgiving and forgiveness. Especially what we are taught in the N/T. I think we need to have a better understanding of it (thinking out loud)

Apologies ....

I am reminded of Corrie ten Boom who travelled Europe after the war preaching forgiveness. While in Germany she was confronted after meeting with one of the cruellest prison guards of Ravensbruch [where her sister Betty had died] He had been saved.

Now he stretched out his hand to Corrie to thank her for forgiving him.

Corrie froze

She cried inwardly to the Lord "how can I love such a man?" in utter anguish of soul. But the Lord showed her she must forgive or go home and never preach again. He said "you put forth your hand and I will supply the love"

Corrie did so, purely mechanically she put out her hand and as the German officer took her hand Corrie's heart was flooded with God's love for the man. She heartily forgave him.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Believing is not a work. I always find it interesting when someone quotes one verse and ignores another. Why is it that you will not believe what Paul says in one place, but you do in another. :think:

Romans 4:4-5
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​


When I see it's raining outside, I had nothing to do with making it rain, but I was persuaded it was raining when I felt the rain drops and saw them splattering on the ground.


Yes, it is. Believing is something a person does.

~~~~
 

Nanja

Well-known member
You say that because I reject "Hyper-Calvinism." No thanks, I want
no part of your "False doctrine."


You are believing in a false gospel of works.

The Truths of TULIP is the Gospel of God's Grace!



beloved57
The Truths of TULIP:

Total Depravity and inability spiritually of the natural man

Unconditional Election of Grace of only a remnant out of mankind

Limited and particular atonement of only some out of mankind

Irresistible Grace or Effectual Call of only some out of mankind

Preservation or perseverance of the Saints to the end by God’s Power and Grace

These Truths in scripture present and define the method of God’s Saving Grace in Christ Jesus and therefore thoroughly present the Gospel of God’s Grace
Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.


And unbelief in any one of these Doctrinal Truths founded upon the Word of God is flat out unbelief and Apostasy !

~~~~~
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Folly...grace through faith....cause and effect. Both are gifts of God.
You can have grace without faith which is the Nanja B57 argument or you can have faith without grace which is the freewill [in many cases presumption] argument. But God's way is Free grace working [made effectual] through faith.



Grace was given to all God's Elect Sons Eph. 1:4-5, His Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23, before the foundation of the world!

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

~~~~~
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Grace was given to all God's Elect Sons Eph. 1:4-5, His Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23, before the foundation of the world!

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

~~~~~

You are talking foolishly, all free grace believers believe we were chosen and predestined before the world was founded...but there has to come a point of time in our lives when our election becomes effectual. You were not always born again, you have not always been a new creature in Christ.

The deal was made but you had to close the deal to make it effectual.

You did not just up and become one of the elect.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
You are talking foolishly, all free grace believers believe we were chosen and predestined before the world was founded...but there has to come a point of time in our lives when our election becomes effectual. You were not always born again, you have not always been a new creature in Christ.

The deal was made but you had to close the deal to make it effectual.

You did not just up and become one of the elect.


So you also preach a false gospel of works.
You had to cooperate and close the deal. :nono:

But Salvation is all God's Work from start to finish.
The Gospel Acts 20:24 speaks of how God's Grace was given to all His Elect in Christ Jesus,
their Covenant Head and Mediator, before the the world began 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2 .
It was not offered or just made available to them; but given!
So then, when His Sons Eph. 1:5 are born in time, Father will draw them John 6:44,
make them Spiritually Alive in the New Birth 1 Pet 1:3 and will lead them by the Spirit to Christ. Rom. 8:14-17.

~~~~~
 

God's Truth

New member
I used to love milk duds. I wish you hadn't mentioned them. They are verboten. :sigh:

Why are they verboten? So you listen and obey your doctor but do not have to obey Jesus?

Jesus says he came for the sick. Tell me, how are you going to get well if you do not obey Jesus?
 

God's Truth

New member
Those who believe coming before a jealous God of justice and judgment who demands a blood sacrifice might be the same folks who don't accept Jesus' God as he specified in the "Lord's Prayer."

I see Jesus as belonging to the ancient biblical tradition of a God of mercy who wants us to come before him with repentance and forgiveness only.

The spilling of blood on the altar for payment of sin got its start from Aaron and the priestly cult he stood for.

The "Jesus saved humankind from sin by dying on the cross" is another opposite tradition that is also found weaved in and out from Genesis onto the New Testament.

It's theological expression wasn't worked out until about 900 years after Jesus had long been crucified.

You will not 'see' anything until you obey Jesus. See John 14:21, and 7:17.
 

God's Truth

New member
Folly...grace through faith....cause and effect. Both are gifts of God.
You can have grace without faith which is the Nanja B57 argument or you can have faith without grace which is the freewill [in many cases presumption] argument. But God's way is Free grace working [made effectual] through faith.

You have NOTHING if you do not obey Jesus.
Your believe alone doctrine is worthless if you do not obey Jesus.
 
Top