Focus on the Family Sides With Colorado Baker Refused to Bake 'God Hates Gays' Cake

[annabenedetti]

Yes, he refused to create the requested cake (decorated for a wedding) but he did offer them alternatives. Better check the articles about it.

This is the same in reverse. It cant be both ways, either the business owner has the right to reject a request to create that which is against his own conscience or beliefs, or he doesnt.

That is the issue here and yes, its the same overall issue in both cases.

The other baker refused to bake the requested cake, based on the sexual identity of the person who was placing the order. Marjorie Silva did not refuse to bake the cake, she only refused to pipe the frosting message. I believe there's a difference, and I'll be interested to see how it all plays out.

 

[TracerBullet]

The other baker refused to bake the requested cake, based on the sexual identity of the person who was placing the order. Marjorie Silva did not refuse to bake the cake, she only refused to pipe the frosting message. I believe there's a difference, and I'll be interested to see how it all plays out.

^this^

 

[quip]

Just because its a different cake, the overall issue isnt different, the baker is being forced to make something against his beliefs, and in this case the religious beliefs of the patron are being violated and religious freedom, unlike gay marriage IS guaranteed by the constitution.

Sorry, but I disagree here...the respective contexts are different.

Like shagster noted one is expressing hate the other expressing a marriage event. Not even close. Though I do agree that the bakers shouldn't be required to make either cake. Let the market decide about hate or gay marriage cakes.

 

[shagster01]

Well said!

What do you mean well said? You are the one that said the customer's rights were violated right HERE:

and in this case the religious beliefs of the patron are being violated

Now you are saying "well said" that no customers rights were violated. You are all over the place on this issue.

note: I, too, don't believe any customers rights were violated.

 

[Desert Reign]

My stance, neither baker should be sanctioned and business owners should have the right not to support causes or beliefs in which they do not agree and their freedom of speech and religion need not be checked at the door of their business.

Agree completely. Baking a cake is one thing. Creating a slogan supporting a position that is against your Christian beliefs is an entirely other thing.

 

[shagster01]

Anyhow, Focus on the Family did take the Christian approach here, as the Bible states that God hates the sin, not the sinner, and "gays" are the sinner, making the cake a lie anyway.

 

[Lon]

Anyhow, Focus on the Family did take the Christian approach here, as the Bible states that God hates the sin, not the sinner, and "gays" are the sinner, making the cake a lie anyway.

What Bible passage are you referring to? Let's see if you are right or wrong.

:think:

 

[shagster01]

What Bible passage are you referring to? Let's see if you are right or wrong.

:think:

John 3:16. Gays are "the world," right?

 

[quip]

John 3:16. Gays are "the world," right?

Not if GFR7 has any say in the matter!

 

[Angel4Truth]

The other baker refused to bake the requested cake, based on the sexual identity of the person who was placing the order. Marjorie Silva did not refuse to bake the cake, she only refused to pipe the frosting message. I believe there's a difference, and I'll be interested to see how it all plays out.

That is false, he had been serving them well before this issue came up, he had also refused to make halloween treats of all kinds and was well known to be consistant in his beliefs.

There is no difference, as the baker offered the gay couple a reception cake but refused a wedding cake.

Same issue in reverse.

 

[annabenedetti]

The other baker refused to bake the requested cake, based on the sexual identity of the person who was placing the order. Marjorie Silva did not refuse to bake the cake, she only refused to pipe the frosting message. I believe there's a difference, and I'll be interested to see how it all plays out.

That is false, he had been serving them well before this issue came up, he had also refused to make halloween treats of all kinds and was well known to be consistant in his beliefs.

There is no difference, as the baker offered the gay couple a reception cake but refused a wedding cake.

Same issue in reverse.

It's false? It's right from your OP:

"The undisputed facts show that (Phillips) discriminated against complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage," wrote Judge Robert N. Spencer in his December 2013 decision.

Phillips refused to make the requested cake.

Silva did not refuse to make the requested cake, decorated as ordered - except for the lettering.

The point of distinction as I see it: Phillips (in the judge's words above) refused to make the requested cake because of the sexual orientation of the customer. Silva didn't act in response to the customer's orientation, but to the words he requested that she write.

 

[Angel4Truth]

It's false? It's right from your OP:

Phillips refused to make the requested cake.

Silva did not refuse to make the requested cake, decorated as ordered - except for the lettering.

The point of distinction as I see it: Phillips (in the judge's words above) refused to make the requested cake because of the sexual orientation of the customer. Silva didn't act in response to the customer's orientation, but to the words he requested that she write.

Yes, phillips didnt make the "requested cake" , he didnt make a wedding cake but he did offer an alternative cake. Silva didnt make the "requested" cake either. He asked that the patron make the requested part that he rejected, the gays in phillips cake could have accepted the alternative cake that was offered and created one themselves from it also. He made them the offer of alternatives to "wedding" cake. He didnt refuse cake. He refused specific cake as did this baker.

Overall issue, neither made what was requested to be made, and either both are wrong for it, or both have the right to reject customer requests.

 

[resodko]

should a jewish bakery be able to refuse to make this?

should a black bakery be allowed to refuse service to these guys?

Spoiler

 

[TracerBullet]

should a jewish bakery be able to refuse to make this?

should a black bakery be allowed to refuse service to these guys?

Spoiler

I didn't know bakeries had either a religious affiliation or a skin color

 

[Jose Fly]

Overall issue, neither made what was requested to be made, and either both are wrong for it, or both have the right to reject customer requests.

Fortunately the real world doesn't typically operate in fundamentalist black/white terms.

 

[resodko]

I didn't know bakeries had either a religious affiliation or a skin color

and yet you're content discussing a "Christian" bakery


bigot

 

[Desert Reign]

As always, I side with business OWNERS to make these types of decisions.

By these types of decisions, I mean ... mountain. Molehill.

It's a cake for goodness sakes. Not a blood transfusion or emergency procedure.

It's a secret plot by lawyers to make economic use of their otherwise spare time. Maybe TH is behind it all?
It's like they say: 'where there's a will, there's a lawyer.'

 

[TracerBullet]

and yet you're content discussing a "Christian" bakery

Never have. I have on occasion talked about Christian bakers.

bigot

Yes we all know you are, so you don't need to sign all your posts with the label

 

[Angel4Truth]

Update to the op: Christian Activist Denies Asking Colorado Bakery to Make 'God Hates Gays' Cake

A Christian activist who filed a complaint against a Colorado bakery for refusing to make two cakes protesting against homosexuality has denied asking for the confections to include the phrase "God hates gays."

Recently Azucar Bakery of Denver had a complaint filed against them before the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Regulatory Agencies for refusing to make the cakes.

Bill Jack, founder of the Christian group Worldview Academy and the one who filed the complaint, told The Christian Post that he never wanted the phrase "God hates gays" put on any of the cakes he requested.

"I requested two cakes each in the shape of an open Bible. On the first cake I requested on one page, 'God hates sin – Psalm 45:7,' and on the facing page, 'Homosexuality is a detestable sin – Leviticus 18:22'," said Jack on Thursday.

"On the second cake I requested on one page, 'God loves sinners,' and on the facing page, 'While we were yet sinners Christ died for us – Romans 5:8.' I, also, requested a decoration of two groomsmen holding hands with a cross in the background with a ghostbusters symbol over it to illustrate that such a union is unacceptable biblically."

Jack's complaint against Azucar garnered many headlines courtesy local news stories like the one done by Jessica Oh of KUSA Channel 9 News.

Oh interviewed Marjorie Silva, the owner of Azucar, who said that Jack's request included phrases like "God hates gays."

"After I read it, I was like 'No way,'" said Silva to KUSA. "'We're not doing this. This is just very discriminatory and hateful.'"

Last March, Jack made the request for the two cakes. When Silva refused to make them with the message Jack wanted, offering instead to make the cakes without the message and to give Jack the supplies necessary to put whatever message he wanted on the cakes. In response, Jack filed a complaint with DORA's Civil Rights Division.

Several news publications including The Christian Post carried the story with the claim that the "God hates gays" phrase was requested for the cakes.

Earlier this week, World Magazine ran a story wherein Jack denied requesting the specific phrase "God Hates Gays" for the cakes....read more at link

http://www.christianpost.com/news/c...do-bakery-to-make-god-hates-gays-cake-133368/

Apparantly the cake shop in the op lied about what was requested to be placed on the cake. The cake was never requested to say God hates gays.

Wow.

 

[annabenedetti]

Update to the op: Christian Activist Denies Asking Colorado Bakery to Make 'God Hates Gays' Cake


http://www.christianpost.com/news/c...do-bakery-to-make-god-hates-gays-cake-133368/

Apparantly the cake shop in the op lied about what was requested to be placed on the cake. The cake was never requested to say God hates gays.

Wow.

He wouldn't let the bakery make a copy, and he wouldn't let them read the words aloud, so she was going by memory. If it's so easy to say she lied, it's just as easy to say the same about him, that he's lying, that he's changed his story - but I'm not going to do that.

What he says he ordered:

"I requested two cakes each in the shape of an open Bible. On the first cake I requested on one page, 'God hates sin – Psalm 45:7,' and on the facing page, 'Homosexuality is a detestable sin – Leviticus 18:22'," said Jack on Thursday.
"On the second cake I requested on one page, 'God loves sinners,' and on the facing page, 'While we were yet sinners Christ died for us – Romans 5:8.' I, also, requested a decoration of two groomsmen holding hands with a cross in the background with a ghostbusters symbol over it to illustrate that such a union is unacceptable biblically."


​

So she found that unacceptable to write. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, because I still see this the way I've said earlier: The point of distinction as I see it: Phillips (in the judge's words) refused to make the requested cake because of the sexual orientation of the customer. Silva did not act in response to the customer's orientation, but to the words he requested that she write.