Faith to believe on Christ !

[beloved57]

Amen ! Also, all the Elect of God; Abraham's Spiritual Seed, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, 29, were Imputed with Christ's Righteousness as the result of His Obedience / Faithfulness on their behalf Rom. 5:8-10, 19.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Now this Righteousness of Faith as a free gift to Abraham's Seed, or God's Elect, is revealed to Spirit-Given Faith Gal. 5:22, hence the Righteousness of Faith Rom. 4:13 !

Amen Sister !

 

[beloved57]

That no man can come to Christ/believe in Christ except of an intervention by the Father as stated in Jn 6:44 and implied in Jn 6:65, is a testification that its solely by the Power of the Spirit that causes one to believe, by birthing Faith in us. So the ability to believe in Christ is from God.

 

[beloved57]

Gods Power causes us to believe in Jesus, the truths of His Gospel Isa 53:1
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.[Christ being believed on in the world is a Mystery of Godliness]

1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Eph 1:12

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

 

[Nanja]

That no man can come to Christ/believe in Christ except of an intervention by the Father as stated in Jn 6:44 and implied in Jn 6:65, is a testification that its solely by the Power of the Spirit that causes one to believe, by birthing Faith in us. So the ability to believe in Christ is from God.

Amen Brother, the Father draws His Chosen in Christ Eph. 1:4 powerfully by His Gift of Grace, as Paul states:

Eph. 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

So Faith to believe isn't merely an offer to all without exception, but is actually done / performed in those who were chosen in union with Christ before the foundation to be holy and without blame before Him in Love; they were made Faithful by Christ giving them the Gift of Faith.

Phil. 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[Nanja]

Gods Power causes us to believe in Jesus, the truths of His Gospel Isa 53:1
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.[Christ being believed on in the world is a Mystery of Godliness]

1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Eph 1:12

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Indeed Brother, Brother Paul here attributes Believing / Faith to "the working of God's Mighty Power", giving all Glory to God.

Contrarily though, false religion of man dishonors God by attributing believing to man's will, which is outright blasphemy !

 

[DAN P]

2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !

Ans just what does EXPERIMENTALLY then mean , that the NEW BIRTH is an experiment ?

dan p

 

[Bright Raven]

Can you explain the points I made in the OP ?

You were given the answer. You just do not see it.

 

[beloved57]

Faith to believe in Christ is given by the victorious Christ to His People He won the victory for, by His Suretyship obedience for them. 1 Jn 5:4

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Plainly Faith cometh from being born of God, its fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22. Being born of God is from the obedience of Christ and His victory, and He giveth them He died for the victory by giving them new birth 1 Cor 15:57

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This victory which brings Faith, we overcome Rev 12:11

11 And they overcame[victory] him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This connects Faith, by which the born of God receive victory 1 Jn 5:4 with the blood of the Lamb ! He giveth us the victory/Faith !

 

[marke]

2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !

The Calvinist hymn of praise: "I thank thee, O Sovereign Father, that thou hast not made me like other sinners, to be destroyed in fiery vengeance for being born in sins. I thank thee, O Sovereign, that thou hast loved me since before the beginning of time and hast chosen me to inherit the blessings of eternal life with thee in heaven because of thy sovereign choice. I thank thee that thou hast condemned to hell without hope my family members, my friends, and other unworthy sinners because of their wickedness and depravity. Surely thy people will praise thee for eternity for thy blessed sovereign choice which had nothing to do with our response to the preaching of the Gospel. Hallelujah."

 

[beloved57]

The Calvinist hymn of praise: "I thank thee, O Sovereign Father, that thou hast not made me like other sinners, to be destroyed in fiery vengeance for being born in sins. I thank thee, O Sovereign, that thou hast loved me since before the beginning of time and hast chosen me to inherit the blessings of eternal life with thee in heaven because of thy sovereign choice. I thank thee that thou hast condemned to hell without hope my family members, my friends, and other unworthy sinners because of their wickedness and depravity. Surely thy people will praise thee for eternity for thy blessed sovereign choice which had nothing to do with our response to the preaching of the Gospel. Hallelujah."

Look at you, you evaded what the post was saying, I explained my pov. What was what, lets discuss it.

 

[marke]

2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

Peter says Christians have obtained faith through God's righteousness. Peter does not say nobody but Christians can come to Jesus for salvation based upon His righteousness.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Christians have received the righteousness by faith. That does not mean they received the gift before they even understood it was being offered to them by God. John 1:12 tells us that those who hear the Gospel and believe the Gospel will be given the power to become the sons of God.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !

Nothing in Peter describes salvation as something off-limits to those not specifically pre-selected by God's own secret will to be allowed to petition for.

 

[beloved57]

Peter says Christians have obtained faith through God's righteousness. Peter does not say nobody but Christians can come to Jesus for salvation based upon His righteousness.

Christians have received the righteousness by faith. That does not mean they received the gift before they even understood it was being offered to them by God. John 1:12 tells us that those who hear the Gospel and believe the Gospel will be given the power to become the sons of God.

Nothing in Peter describes salvation as something off-limits to those not specifically pre-selected by God's own secret will to be allowed to petition for.

You miss the point altogether, even after I explained !

 

[beloved57]

To believe on Christ is an evidenced that one is in a saved blessed state already Jn 20:29

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

It is an evidence of a work of God in them when they have been persuaded of spiritual things they have not seen.

 

[beloved57]

Faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, Eph 2 8; but it is also the procuration of Christ’s blood, and is certainly put in the hearts of the redeemed by the Holy Spirit, on the account of the Father’s election and Christ’s redemption, Titus i. 1; therefore it is called "the faith of God’s elect, obtained through the righteousness of God our Saviour," 2 Peter 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The them would be the Elect See 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The sanctification of the Spirit is the Spirit putting Faith/Obedience into the hearts of the redeemed chosen.

 

[JudgeRightly]

To believe on Christ is an evidenced that one is in a saved blessed state already

That's not what scripture says. Scripture says that one must believe in order to be saved:

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:9-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-13&version=NKJV

Jn 20:29

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

The verse does not say what you want it to say. My evidence? Just read the verse that you quoted!

They are blessed BECAUSE they believe, not believe because they are blessed.

It is an evidence of a work of God in them when they have been persuaded of spiritual things they have not seen.

Which neither means nor implies that they were saved before they believed.

Faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, Eph 2:8;

False. The passage you cite does not say what you want it to say. Read:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

The GRACE is not of ourselves. GRACE is the gift of God. Not faith.

Faith is evidence that we believe. Which means we have to believe first!

but it is also the procuration of Christ’s blood, and is certainly put in the hearts of the redeemed by the Holy Spirit, on the account of the Father’s election and Christ’s redemption, Titus i. 1;

I don't know what verse you were trying to cite, but here's what Paul says in Titus:

For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. - Titus 1:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus1:10-11&version=NKJV

Don't be like that.

therefore it is called "the faith of God’s elect, obtained through the righteousness of God our Saviour,"

Ah, I see what you were trying to quote. So why did you put the following reference immediately after quoting Titus 1:1?

Which says this, by the way:

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. - Titus 1:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus1:1-4&version=NKJV

2 Peter 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

In what way is this verse supposed to support your position?

Peter wrote 2 Peter about 30 years AFTER Paul's conversion, which is when God put Israel's "New Covenant" program on hold and switched to working with the Body of Christ. By this point in time, Christ, through Paul, would have fully revealed to Peter (and the remaining Apostles) Paul's Christ-given doctrine of grace (as opposed to the New Covenant, which is grace + works). In this verse, Peter is recognizing that any converts he has brought have been saved via Paul's doctrine, and not the one he was commanded to teach. This verse supports my position better than it does yours, if at all.

The them would be the Elect See 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

For once, we agree, despite the fact that you're still cherry picking.

Here is a supporting verse from the same book:

Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), - 2 Peter 3:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:1&version=NKJV

I will note, however, that despite you being correct, Peter is NOT talking to the Body of Christ.

The sanctification of the Spirit is the Spirit putting Faith/Obedience into the hearts of the redeemed chosen.

Chapter verse?

 

[beloved57]

That's not what scripture says. Scripture says that one must believe in order to be saved:

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:9-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-13&version=NKJV



The verse does not say what you want it to say. My evidence? Just read the verse that you quoted!

They are blessed BECAUSE they believe, not believe because they are blessed.



Which neither means nor implies that they were saved before they believed.



False. The passage you cite does not say what you want it to say. Read:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

The GRACE is not of ourselves. GRACE is the gift of God. Not faith.

Faith is evidence that we believe. Which means we have to believe first!



I don't know what verse you were trying to cite, but here's what Paul says in Titus:

For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. - Titus 1:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus1:10-11&version=NKJV

Don't be like that.



Ah, I see what you were trying to quote. So why did you put the following reference immediately after quoting Titus 1:1?

Which says this, by the way:

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. - Titus 1:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus1:1-4&version=NKJV



In what way is this verse supposed to support your position?

Peter wrote 2 Peter about 30 years AFTER Paul's conversion, which is when God put Israel's "New Covenant" program on hold and switched to working with the Body of Christ. By this point in time, Christ, through Paul, would have fully revealed to Peter (and the remaining Apostles) Paul's Christ-given doctrine of grace (as opposed to the New Covenant, which is grace + works). In this verse, Peter is recognizing that any converts he has brought have been saved via Paul's doctrine, and not the one he was commanded to teach. This verse supports my position better than it does yours, if at all.



For once, we agree, despite the fact that you're still cherry picking.

Here is a supporting verse from the same book:

Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), - 2 Peter 3:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:1&version=NKJV

I will note, however, that despite you being correct, Peter is NOT talking to the Body of Christ.



Chapter verse?

I have given you scripture for what I believe, for a lost person cant believe in Christ since while in a lost state the Gospel is hidden from them 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I have given you scripture for what I believe,

And I am telling you what scripture says.

See the difference?

for a lost person cant believe in Christ since while in a lost state the Gospel is hidden from them

Consistency check, b57:

So, according to your system of beliefs, the gospel is hidden to dead men? It's hidden to them who don't have eyes to see?

In other words, Why put a blindfold on a corpse?

2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Why is it hidden from them?

Because they have rejected it. They're lost because they don't want to be found.

 

[beloved57]

And I am telling you what scripture says.

See the difference?



Consistency check, b57:

So, according to your system of beliefs, the gospel is hidden to dead men? It's hidden to them who don't have eyes to see?

In other words, Why put a blindfold on a corpse?



Why is it hidden from them?

Because they have rejected it. They're lost because they don't want to be found.

Its okay for you to speak scripture, it just doesnt change the scripture I already showed you.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Its okay for you to speak scripture, it just doesnt change the scripture I already showed you.

I agree, because the scripture you present does not say what you want it to say, thus, scripture remains unchanged.

 

[beloved57]

I agree, because the scripture you present does not say what you want it to say, thus, scripture remains unchanged.

Sure it does. You just cant see it, but truth isnt dependent on whether you can see it, or understand it.