explain Phil 3:11 ?

glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Derf said:
Right, the hope of glory. We have assurance of our faith in that the Holy Spirit is within us, a downpayment of what us to come, that is, the breath of God that will be breathed into us forever at the resurrection. That's why it is "faith" (the substance of things hoped for) now, because we don't have it fully yet. Just a "taste", as you said.
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Interesting. Do you have a verse I might find that breath of God you speak of at the resurrection? I haven’t noticed that part, but I like it. We will surely experience wonderful things at that time.
 
Idolater

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Derf said:
I just don't think it makes sense to think that God is faithful to save us when we don't believe in Him anymore. That's not to say that we don't always act out our faith correctly, but if someone once believed, then no longer believes, what does that make him? Certainly not a "believer". Our salvation is not based on something we did in the past, but our belief in something He did in the past. So if our belief in that thing stops, He is still faithful to all believers...but not necessarily to unbelievers.
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You might not think you believe anymore—but maybe you still do. Maybe you're just trying to steel man unbelief—maybe you're just an honest seeker of truth, like Thomas Jefferson was (he courageously steel manned atheism itself, he was so committed to knowing the truth). Maybe you're method acting in order to steel man atheism or unbelief with all honesty.

Jefferson thought that God couldn't hold such a venture against you. That He wouldn't. Ultimately he was confident testing unbelief because he believed in God.

I'm just saying this plausible, whenever we consider someone or the prospect of someone going from faith to unbelief.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Idolater said:
You might not think you believe anymore—but maybe you still do. Maybe you're just trying to steel man unbelief—maybe you're just an honest seeker of truth, like Thomas Jefferson was (he courageously steel manned atheism itself, he was so committed to knowing the truth). Maybe you're method acting in order to steel man atheism or unbelief with all honesty.

Jefferson thought that God couldn't hold such a venture against you. That He wouldn't. Ultimately he was confident testing unbelief because he believed in God.

I'm just saying this plausible, whenever we consider someone or the prospect of someone going from faith to unbelief.
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Well, ya gotta admit we humans are quite capable of pulling the wool over our own eyes. 😉
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Idolater said:
You might not think you believe anymore—but maybe you still do. Maybe you're just trying to steel man unbelief—maybe you're just an honest seeker of truth, like Thomas Jefferson was (he courageously steel manned atheism itself, he was so committed to knowing the truth). Maybe you're method acting in order to steel man atheism or unbelief with all honesty.

Jefferson thought that God couldn't hold such a venture against you. That He wouldn't. Ultimately he was confident testing unbelief because he believed in God.

I'm just saying this plausible, whenever we consider someone or the prospect of someone going from faith to unbelief.
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If they are unbelieving, then they are unbelieving. If they are testing their faith, then they aren't unbelieving.
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
Interesting. Do you have a verse I might find that breath of God you speak of at the resurrection? I haven’t noticed that part, but I like it. We will surely experience wonderful things at that time.
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Not a single verse. But if God enlivened us by His breath at the beginning, then it seems probable that it is required after death (in the resurrection).
Here are a few that speak of life and God's breath:
[Gen 2:7 KJV] And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[Job 33:4 KJV] The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
[Psa 104:29 KJV] Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
[Psa 150:6 KJV] Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
[Eze 37:5 KJV] Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
[Eze 37:6 KJV] And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
[Act 17:25 KJV] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
 
Idolater

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Derf said:
Not a single verse. But if God enlivened us by His breath at the beginning, then it seems probable that it is required after death (in the resurrection).
Here are a few that speak of life and God's breath:
[Gen 2:7 KJV] And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[Job 33:4 KJV] The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
[Psa 104:29 KJV] Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
[Psa 150:6 KJV] Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
[Eze 37:5 KJV] Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
[Eze 37:6 KJV] And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
[Act 17:25 KJV] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
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Also just the Creed, "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life."
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Derf said:
Not a single verse. But if God enlivened us by His breath at the beginning, then it seems probable that it is required after death (in the resurrection).
Here are a few that speak of life and God's breath:
[Gen 2:7 KJV] And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[Job 33:4 KJV] The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
[Psa 104:29 KJV] Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
[Psa 150:6 KJV] Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
[Eze 37:5 KJV] Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
[Eze 37:6 KJV] And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
[Act 17:25 KJV] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
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Oh yes. Excellent catch there with the Ezekiel quotes. I found this one, but you beat me to it.

Ezekiel 37: 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.​
​
That speaks of the return of Israel to the land that occurred in 1948, but they won’t be given the breath of life until they see Him coming at the end of this age, and recognize their Messiah in His glory.
 
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