Experts question coronavirus panic

[Gary K]

Here's another fatality this morning.

Talk about a coincidence: just as we were discussing why April would be "apocalyptic" for the oil industry, as Saudi Arabia just unleashed an unprecedented record amount of oil to buyers in a scramble to put its high-priced competitors out of business, warning that "countless oil producers would file for bankruptcy", former shale darling Whiting Petroleum did just that, filing a pre-packaged Chapter 11 deal in the Southern District of Texas Bankruptcy Court after reaching an agreement with certain note holders to pursue a "comprehensive" and "consensual" financial restructuring.

Whiting, which in Q4 pumped 123,000 bpd of which 80,000 bpd was nat gas, said it concluded that given a "severe downturn" in oil and gas prices resulting from the Saudi Arabia-Russia oil price war and COVID-19-related impact on demand a financial restructuring was the "best path forward." Creditors may disagree: the company's bonds due March 2021 were trading at par as recently as mid-January, even though we warned as far back as 2015 that it would be the first company to go under: truly a testament to how idiotic the junk bond market has been for the past 4 years.

The rest of the article can be found below.

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/whiting-petroleum-files-bankruptcy

 

[jgarden]

You're an idiot. The I posted links don't even go to Zerohedge. And, snopes, factcheck.org, and politifact are a bunch of scam artists who push a specific agenda.

Florida, Finally: The state will go on lockdown, far too late
April 2, 2020

Much of red America is finally going on lockdown.

After resisting the pleas of public health experts for days, the governors of Florida, Georgia and Mississippi — all states won by President Trump in 2016 — announced yesterday that they will be ordering their residents to stay home, effective Friday.

The turnabout from Florida’s governor, Ron DeSantis, was especially stark. DeSantis had previously allowed spring break vacationers to socialize on Florida's beaches, where they likely spread the virus. Florida, of course, also has one of the nation’s largest populations of people over 65, who are especially threatened by the virus.

The new lockdowns are welcome, because they will help slow the virus. But they’re also coming much later than they should have. A big reason that the virus has recently been spreading more rapidly in the United States than in Europe or Asia is the slow response from many American political leaders.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/o...tis-trump.html
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ******
The "holdout" Republican Governors of Florida, Georgia and Mississippi finally put their states into "lockdown" yesterday - apparently they've joined the "IDIOT CLUB" with the majority of American state governors who are taking the COVIR-109 "scare" seriously!

 

[ok doser]

The .... Governors of ....

states in a country other than your own


meanwhile, Covid cases are spiking in Ontario and Quebec

 

[chair]

The "holdout" Republican Governors of Florida, Georgia and Mississippi finally put their states into "lockdown" yesterday - apparently they've joined the "IDIOT CLUB" of the majority of American state governors who are taking the COVIR-109 "scare" seriously!

How many dead will it take to convince you that this is a real problem?

 

[jgarden]

How many dead will it take to convince you that this is a real problem?

This was part of a sarcastic response to "freeloader" who referred to me as an "idiot" for not buying into the far-right argument that the COVIR-19 pandemic has been overblown - once again conservatives are claiming to possess "insider" conspiracy knowledge that is not available to the rest of we mere mortals!

 

[ok doser]

... "freeloader" who referred to me as an "idiot" ...

freeloader hurt your feelings by calling you a mean name?

once again conservatives are ...

yes, your inexplicable irrational obsessive hatred for conservatives is almost as powerful as your inexplicable irrational obsessive hatred for another nation's leader



when you were a child, did a conservative steal your lunch money?

knock you down on the playground?

take your best gal from you?

 

[chair]

This was part of a sarcastic response to "freeloader" who referred to me as an "idiot" for not buying into the far-right argument that the COVIR-19 pandemic has been overblown - once again conservatives are claiming to possess "insider" conspiracy knowledge that is not available to the rest of we mere mortals!

My apologies. It's hard sometimes to follow things here.

 

[ok doser]

My apologies. It's hard sometimes to follow things here.

you need a scorecard

jgarden is a Canadian national with a severe case of Trump derangement syndrome

 

[User Name]

And Chair, if you're not keeping score, "ok dozer" has a severe case of "jgarden derangement syndrome".

 

[chair]

I'm just trying to focus on reality here.
The plain facts are:
1. This is a serious disease
2. It got out of hand in Wuhan because of Chinese (communist) stupidity
3. The Chinese got their act together and got it under control
4. The Western democracies were busy patting themselves on the back- "Democracies are much better and dealing with things like this because A,B,C..."
5. While we were patting ourselves on the back, the virus arrived- and caught everybody in the West, inexcusably, with their pants down. Western Hubris and stupidity this time.
6. The time for pointing fingers is way past. Time to get our act together and control this thing. There will be time enough to fix the blame election time.
7. The tougher we are, the faster it will get under control, and the faster business will get rolling again. Need an example? China again. (And yes, the Chinese are awful in many ways. )

 

[ok doser]

I'm just trying to focus on reality here.
The plain facts are:
1. This is a serious disease
2. It got out of hand in Wuhan because of Chinese (communist) stupidity
3. The Chinese got their act together and got it under control
4. The Western democracies were busy patting themselves on the back- "Democracies are much better and dealing with things like this because A,B,C..."
5. While we were patting ourselves on the back, the virus arrived- and caught everybody in the West, inexcusably, with their pants down. Western Hubris and stupidity this time.
6. The time for pointing fingers is way past. Time to get our act together and control this thing. There will be time enough to fix the blame election time.
7. The tougher we are, the faster it will get under control, and the faster business will get rolling again. Need an example? China again. (And yes, the Chinese are awful in many ways. )

3. impossible to know


agree with all the rest :thumb:


although I'd nuance 4 and 5 and separate the western medical communities from the western governments

 

[User Name]

And yes, the Chinese are awful in many ways.

China has a long history of covering up infectious disease epidemics, such as HIV and SARS. China wanted to shed this reputation, and at one point, the government warned that anyone who covered up SARS-CoV-2 would be "nailed on the pillar of shame for eternity." That must have been an inside joke. Reverting to true form, whistleblowers were silenced. And we now know that China covered up the coronavirus outbreak for at least three weeks.

Worse than a coverup, China is now trying to re-write history. ProPublica reports that thousands of fake or hijacked Twitter accounts spread disinformation and attack the Chinese government's political opponents. One official blamed the outbreak on the U.S. military. This is all part of a coordinated effort to deflect blame.

It's time for the world to face reality: On the global stage, China is at best criminally negligent and at worst a malevolent force.

-- https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/04/0...nship-china-should-never-go-back-normal-14679

 

[chair]

3. impossible to know


agree with all the rest :thumb:


although I'd nuance 4 and 5 and separate the western medical communities from the western governments

About #3. I work with people in China. And it apparently is real. Restaurants are opening. People are starting to work again.

 

[chair]

It's time for the world to face reality: On the global stage, China is at best criminally negligent and at worst a malevolent force.

Oh, China is bad news in general. No doubt about it. But everybody has themselves to blame. Except Taiwan, who recognized the threat and acted very quickly. Everybody else (in the political world, at least) looked at it as a distant Chinese or Asian problem, forgot about the huge amount of air traffic throughout the world, continued having mass events, and now we are all paying the price.

 

[jgarden]

What they say:

Importantly, the results we present here suggest the ongoing epidemics in the UK and Italy started at least a month before the first reported death and have already led to the accumulation of significant levels of herd immunity in both countries. There is an inverse relationship between the proportion currently immune and the fraction of the population vulnerable to severe disease.
– Fundamental principles of epidemic spread highlight the immediate need for large-scale serological surveys to assess the stage of the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic, 24th March 2020 – – – The research presents a very different view of the epidemic to the modelling at Imperial College London […] “I’m surprised that there has been such unqualified acceptance of the Imperial model”, Dr Gupta said.
[…]
The Oxford results would mean the country had already acquired substantial herd immunity through the unrecognised spread of covid19 over more than two months.
Although some experts have shed doubt on the strength and length of the human immune response to the virus, Prof Gupta said the emerging evidence made her confident that humanity would build up herd immunity against Covid19
– “Coronavirus may have infected halt the population”, Financial Times, 24th March 2020

Apparently Prime Minister Johnson bought into the "herd immunity" argument until he came down with COVIR-19 himself and realized that many of those who wouldn't achieve "herd immunity" and therefore deemed expendable, just happened to be senior citizens - the demographic that constituted a large part of his conservative voting base!

The Imperial College London may not have the name recognition of Oxford but it places 10th in "The 2020 Times World Universities Rankings" - it was one of their studies that Dr. Fauci used to convince President Trump that if he wasn't prepared take this COVIR-19 pandemic more seriously, he should be prepared to have the American healthcare system overwhelmed and achieve the dubious honor of presiding over the deaths of 2 million plus citizens - most of whom would fit the age profile of voting Republican!

https://www.timeshighereducation.com...asc/cols/stats

 

[ok doser]

Except Taiwan, who recognized the threat and acted very quickly.

interesting

better than South Korea?

any idea what's happening in North Korea?

 

[ok doser]

Apparently Prime Minister Johnson bought into the "herd immunity" argument until he came down with COVIR-19 himself and realized that many of those victims deemed expendable because they wouldn't achieve immunity were senior citizens, the very group who was most likely to vote conservative!

i wonder if you actually believe this or if you're just trying to poison the conversation :think:

iow, are you a retard or a troll?

inquiring minds want to know!

 

[User Name]

Trump knows better than...Trump:

Donald Trump - Change We Can Believe In

 

[Arthur Brain]

Trump knows better than...Trump:

Donald Trump - Change We Can Believe In

Well, he is a "super genius" after all so even his contradictions have to make sense, right? Seems that way to some...

 

[Arthur Brain]

Apparently Prime Minister Johnson bought into the "herd immunity" argument until he came down with COVIR-19 himself and realized that many of those who wouldn't achieve "herd immunity" and therefore deemed expendable, just happened to be senior citizens - the demographic that constituted a large part of his conservative voting base!

The Imperial College London may not have the name recognition of Oxford but it places 10th in "The 2020 Times World Universities Rankings" - it was one of their studies that Dr. Fauci used to convince President Trump that if he wasn't prepared take this COVIR-19 pandemic more seriously, he should be prepared to have the American healthcare system overwhelmed and achieve the dubious honor of presiding over the deaths of 2 million plus citizens - most of whom would fit the age profile of voting Republican!

https://www.timeshighereducation.com...asc/cols/stats

Well, to be fair he'd already enacted lock down measures before his own infection came to be known and I'm not a fan of Johnson in saying that.