Executing homosexuals

Town Heretic

Out of Order
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Actually He said to the crowd to let any of them who were without sin to cast the first stone. And in that instance they were certainly not without sin, as they were committing several sins in what they were doing. He made no mention of Himself, or what He could do.
And yet he met the standard he declared. You know that. I know that. He knew that. And no stone flew.

As for making the case, I've done that several times. As have others. Do I need to do it again, for you?
You could try. Does it answer my concerns voice in particular? Is what follows you taking a shot at that?

The laws commanded by God required that the perpetrators be caught in the act and could only be condemned on the word of two or three witnesses [no less].
We have no reason to doubt this wasn't in fact accomplished, that those bringing the woman weren't prepared to meet it. Christ certainly doesn't say, "Who are the witnesses and what are their number?"

And what he does say, to the woman, is a pretty clear indictment. "Go and sin no more." He knows she's guilty. Are you suggesting Christ was playing lawyer in a way that would invite scorn among most?

If they were staying in their bedrooms and not doing it in public then they wouldn't be caught in the act.
That would make it a pointless and peculiar bit of a law, unless you think public copulation was a real problem.
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Oh good, THall, who fancies himself an expert of law and military coups and getting things done, is here. Maybe he has a plan for how we'll start getting the homosexuals executed.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Leviticus 20:13 - God thought it was.
Not that you would agree with God
on anything.
I'd agree with Him and anyone who noticed you didn't have a clue what I was actually speaking to and that this scripture didn't begin to address what I did. :thumb:
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
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And yet he met the standard he declared. You know that. I know that. He knew that. And no stone flew.
No, He didn't meet that standard declared in the Law He gave. And you don't seem to understand that. No matter how many times it is explained.

You could try. Does it answer my concerns voice in particular? Is what follows you taking a shot at that?
The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.
-Leviticus 20:10

One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.
-Deuteronomy 19:15

If a matter arises which is too hard for you to judge, between degrees of guilt for bloodshed, between one judgment or another, or between one punishment or another, matters of controversy within your gates, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the Lord your God chooses. And you shall come to the priests, the Levites, and to the judge there in those days, and inquire of them; they shall pronounce upon you the sentence of judgment.
-Deuteronomy 17:8-9


  1. They did not bring the man.
  2. They had no reason to bring her to Jesus n the first place as He was neither priest [Levite] nor judge. Nor was it too hard for them to judge.
  3. The place they brought her was not the place appointed by God.

We have no reason to doubt this wasn't in fact accomplished, that those bringing the woman weren't prepared to meet it. Christ certainly doesn't say, "Who are the witnesses and what are their number?"
Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, [Jesus]“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”[/Jesus] And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, [Jesus]“Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”[/Jesus]


She said, “No one, Lord.”


And Jesus said to her, [Jesus]“Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”[/Jesus]
-John 8:3-11

He asked where the accusers [witnesses] were. There were none when He asked, and He certainly was not a witness to the crime.

Also, if they were following the law then why were they trying to be crafty so they "might have something of which to accuse Him?"

And what he does say, to the woman, is a pretty clear indictment. "Go and sin no more." He knows she's guilty. Are you suggesting Christ was playing lawyer in a way that would invite scorn among most?
Knowing she was guilty and being a witness to the crime are two different things.

That would make it a pointless and peculiar bit of a law, unless you think public copulation was a real problem.
God's commands on capital crimes always stipulated there must be two or three witnesses; that people must be caught in the act in order to punished.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
They don't need to. God already said it was OK to stone those caught in adultery.

However, it would not have been OK to stone her under the circumstances of the event regardless of Jesus' presence or words, etc.

Do you know why?
I have heard that line of reasoning and I do not agree with it. I think it is poorly reasoned to say the least. I also think that Jesus was teaching a lesson about sitting in judgment of others. Before we condemn another we must first look at our own sins and remember that we are no better off than the person we are about to stone.

Does that mean that I think the death penalty is never warranted? No. There are times when is the correct action. It is not the correct action for sexual immorality such as affairs and homosexuality and fornication.
 

TracerBullet

New member
Does anyone have a plan for executing the homosexuals?

In 1986 Paul Cameron of the Family Research Institute proposed the construction of massive concentration camps for homosexuals. He thought the camps could partially fund themselves by offering tours where families could come and watch the killings of gays.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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I have heard that line of reasoning and I do not agree with it. I think it is poorly reasoned to say the least. I also think that Jesus was teaching a lesson about sitting in judgment of others. Before we condemn another we must first look at our own sins and remember that we are no better off than the person we are about to stone.

Does that mean that I think the death penalty is never warranted? No. There are times when is the correct action. It is not the correct action for sexual immorality such as affairs and homosexuality and fornication.
In other words you disagree with God.
 

rougueone

New member
They are sinners. Plain and simple. I am a sinner. I have lied, stolen, and lived a life of sin. I am saved , yes. Are my sins worse then the homosexual ? Are they beyond salvation ?
Was I ?

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” ( from Genesis to Revelation).
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
No, He didn't meet that standard declared in the Law He gave.
He met the one he gave to the mob. Do you believe he forgot about the house divided idea? I don't.

And you don't seem to understand that. No matter how many times it is explained.
I completely understand what you're saying and it doesn't answer the illustration without making Christ willfully deceptive in declaring a standard or answer why he'd give the appearance of something new instead of easily and literally noting the insufficiency.

[*]They did not bring the man.
[*]They had no reason to bring her to Jesus n the first place as He was neither priest [Levite] nor judge. Nor was it too hard for them to judge.
[*]The place they brought her was not the place appointed by God.
He could have said any of that or a simple, "You do not bring her before me lawfully." But that's not what he does. Why? I happen to believe there's a point to it you simply don't want to embrace.
 

PureX

Well-known member
In other words you disagree with God.

No. I disagree with you.
Lighthouse won't be able to perceive the difference. Like any number of Bible "inerrantists", the whole point of believing in biblical inerrancy is to render the reader's interpretation of the text inerrant by association. And thereby endow the reader with God's own righteous wisdom.

To disagree with Lighthouse is to disagree with God. Because God wrote the Bible and lighthouse has read it. Therefor, Lighthouse's understanding and God's intended meaning are one and the same (according to Lighthouse). So he can't possibly be wrong, and therefor anyone who disagrees with him (like you), must be.

The presumption of biblical inerrancy is mostly a function of the adherent's ego, not faith in God.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
He met the one he gave to the mob. Do you believe he forgot about the house divided idea? I don't.


I completely understand what you're saying and it doesn't answer the illustration without making Christ willfully deceptive in declaring a standard or answer why he'd give the appearance of something new instead of easily and literally noting the insufficiency.


He could have said any of that or a simple, "You do not bring her before me lawfully." But that's not what he does. Why? I happen to believe there's a point to it you simply don't want to embrace.
If you look closely at the encounter you might notice that Jesus actually said that the woman could be stoned. He never said you can't stone because of this that or the other thing. Paraphrased, Jesus said, "Go ahead and stone her. Just be sure that you are not guilty of your own sins before stoning her for hers." Jesus never stopped the stoning because it was unlawful, Jesus stopped the stoning by convicting each and every person their of the guilt of their own sins.
 

PureX

Well-known member
If you look closely at the encounter you might notice that Jesus actually said that the woman could be stoned. He never said you can't stone because of this that or the other thing. Paraphrased, Jesus said, "Go ahead and stone her. Just be sure that you are not guilty of your own sins before stoning her for hers." Jesus never stopped the stoning because it was unlawful, Jesus stopped the stoning by convicting each and every person their of the guilt of their own sins.
Thus, showing that the spirit supersedes the law.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
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In 1986 Paul Cameron of the Family Research Institute proposed the construction of massive concentration camps for homosexuals. He thought the camps could partially fund themselves by offering tours where families could come and watch the killings of gays.

Not really a ringing endorsement for the Family Research Institute ...
 
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