Executing homosexuals

[Grosnick Marowbe]

1. Would you care to post the relevant passage stating that an unrepentant child should be stoned to death?
2. Who says we're cherry picking homosexuality?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
King James Version (KJV)
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.



What about adultery too?
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shall you put away evil from Israel.





You guys ONLY want the death penalty for homosexuals!
What about the other transgressors?

 

[Lighthouse]

Of course firstly there is a whole world of difference between homosexuals who engage in consensual safe sex who don't impose themselves or sex on unwilling victims and crimes of violence committed against un-consenting unwilling third parties.

That's completely irrelevant to the issue of repentance.

Anyway I see this seems to be more about your own feelings LH "Do you think we feel differently...". Your own personal dislike of homosexuals, which clearly doesn't require any righteous retribution in my book even if a god's did, which I doubt. :nono:

And yet it wasn't until it was pointed out to me that God never repealed the law regarding homosexuality as a capital crime that I submitted, against my own personal feelings on the matter.

How easily you people forget that I opposed this idea when I joined TOL.

 

[Lighthouse]

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
King James Version (KJV)
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

And what is wrong with this?

What about adultery too?
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shall you put away evil from Israel.

You guys ONLY want the death penalty for homosexuals!
What about the other transgressors?

Why do you put yourself out there as a fool? Have you not been paying attention to these threads? It is well known among most opponents to this idea that I also advocate execution for adulterers. And also for the passage above.

As for the other things I advocate being capital crimes, they primarily are in some areas. They are all at least legally crimes in the US.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

And what is wrong with this?


Why do you put yourself out there as a fool? Have you not been paying attention to these threads? It is well known among most opponents to this idea that I also advocate execution for adulterers. And also for the passage above.

As for the other things I advocate being capital crimes, they primarily are in some areas. They are all at least legally crimes in the US.

I don't respect your opinion and consider you bloodthirsty! Times
have changed, we're not living in the Old Testament era! God's
dealing with mankind differently now! Get with the program!
And, quit calling people fools! It makes you look foolish, trust me!

 

[zoo22]

:idunno:
Did you read the verses I posted, or did you just ignore them?

Yes, I read them. And I said you're like TSF with better grammar. You run from questions and give non-answers, or talk to things you'd rather be talking to. But yes, I've read the verses many times before, and just now I reread them in your post, both in the context of them being "answers" to the questions I was asking you, and within the context of executing homosexuals, which you advocate.

God instituted the death penalty for homosexual sin.

So what do you believe God wants done to homosexuals?

And what do you want done to homosexuals, considering you believe that God instituted the death penalty for homosexual sin?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The death penalty needs to be reserved for murderers! Lighthouse
is advocating a form of genocide! He's not playing with a full deck!

 

[genuineoriginal]

So what do you believe God wants done to homosexuals?

God does not want to destroy anyone, God wants people to repent and be saved, but God will reluctantly destroy them if they refuse.
Please refrain from impugning God's character with ill-framed questions.

And what do you want done to homosexuals, considering you believe that God instituted the death penalty for homosexual sin?

I want people to repent and be saved.
My only duty in this matter is to speak out against the celebration of an abominable act worthy of death.
I expect nothing more for myself than John the Baptist got when he spoke out against Herod's sin with his brother's wife.

 

[Lighthouse]

I don't respect your opinion and consider you bloodthirsty! Times
have changed, we're not living in the Old Testament era! God's
dealing with mankind differently now! Get with the program!
And, quit calling people fools! It makes you look foolish, trust me!

So David and Paul looked foolish when they called others "fools," and/or "foolish"?

And how about you put forth an argument from Scripture that shows that God does not desire these certain sins to be criminalized and punished as such [much less as He commanded]?

Can you do that? Can you make a Biblical argument?

The death penalty needs to be reserved for murderers! Lighthouse
is advocating a form of genocide! He's not playing with a full deck!

Can you put forth a Biblical argument that shows execution should be reserved only for murderers?

Why shouldn't rapists, child molesters and kidnappers also receive it?

And, again, what is wrong with the idea presented in Deuteronomy 21:18-21? You have yet to explain why you think it would be wrong to do that today.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

So David and Paul looked foolish when they called others "fools," and/or "foolish"?

And how about you put forth an argument from Scripture that shows that God does not desire these certain sins to be criminalized and punished as such [much less as He commanded]?

Can you do that? Can you make a Biblical argument?


Can you put forth a Biblical argument that shows execution should be reserved only for murderers?

Why shouldn't rapists, child molesters and kidnappers also receive it?

And, again, what is wrong with the idea presented in Deuteronomy 21:18-21? You have yet to explain why you think it would be wrong to do that today.

God was dealing with the House of Israel in the Old Testament,
not the gentile nations! The Gentiles never received the law! The
versus I gave you above explain why the death penalty for
those particular sins! That being; "That Israel would hear
and fear!"


Why not execute gossipers, liars, gluttons, drunks and every other sinner? Would that
satisfy you?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Lighthouse is an extremist! He seems to wish to
live under Old Testament law! Which was meant
for the House of Israel!

 

[genuineoriginal]

Lighthouse is an extremist! He seems to wish to
live under Old Testament law! Which was meant
for the House of Israel!

Deuteronomy 4:6-8 6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Deuteronomy 4:6-8 6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?​

What's your point?

 

[alwight]

That's completely irrelevant to the issue of repentance.

Only that such homosexuals I mentioned don't actually need any repentance afaic.

And yet it wasn't until it was pointed out to me that God never repealed the law regarding homosexuality as a capital crime that I submitted, against my own personal feelings on the matter.

How easily you people forget that I opposed this idea when I joined TOL.

Then I suggest you return to making up your own mind LH rather than believe any acquired homophobic bigotry from the internet.

 

[zoo22]

God does not want to destroy anyone, God wants people to repent and be saved, but God will reluctantly destroy them if they refuse.

Okay. I understand that. God wants people to repent and be saved. God doesn't want people to murder, and God wants murderers to repent and be saved.

What do you believe God wants done to murderers? Do you believe He said anything about what he wants done to murderers?

What do you believe should be done to murderers?

Please refrain from impugning God's character with ill-framed questions.

What was ill phased about the question? Seriously. I asked "So what do you believe God wants done to homosexuals?"

How is that ill-framed? How does that impugn God's character? It's not, and it doesn't. So don't pull that. Get off it.

I want people to repent and be saved.

That's great. I didn't ask about whether you wanted people to repent and be saved or not. I've already acknowledged that, pages and pages ago. I got it. You want homosexuals to repent. God wants homosexuals to repent. No need to keep bringing it up, especially as an answer to a question it doesn't answer. We're taking about executing homosexuals.

What do you think should be done to unrepentant homosexuals?

My only duty in this matter is to speak out against the celebration of an abominable act worthy of death.

Does that mean you don't have an opinion on whether homosexuals should be executed or not? If so, I've misunderstood and I apologize. I thought you believed that homosexuals should be executed because you believe that God commanded that homosexuals be executed.

Do you know what advocate means?

I expect nothing more for myself than John the Baptist got when he spoke out against Herod's sin with his brother's wife.

Okay. That's fine. Good. I like fish. That's neither here nor there.

What do you believe God wants done to homosexuals?

And what do you want done to homosexuals, considering you believe that God instituted the death penalty for homosexual sin?

 

[Lighthouse]

God was dealing with the House of Israel in the Old Testament,
not the gentile nations! The Gentiles never received the law! The
versus I gave you above explain why the death penalty for
those particular sins! That being; "That Israel would hear
and fear!"

And you have yet to show any verses that state criminal laws found within the Mosaic Law should never be applied outside of Israel.

Why not execute gossipers, liars, gluttons, drunks and every other sinner? Would that
satisfy you?

For one thing this has nothing to do with sin. And for another none of those sins should be crimes, let alone capital crimes. With the exception of lying when it is perjury [bearing false witness] in a capital case; because that is at least attempted murder.

Lighthouse is an extremist! He seems to wish to
live under Old Testament law! Which was meant
for the House of Israel!

You keep saying that but you haven't proven it.

Only that such homosexuals I mentioned don't actually need any repentance afaic.

Irrelevant to the issue, as someone brought up unrepentant homosexuals and I was simply pointing out that penitence has naught to do with it.

Then I suggest you return to making up your own mind LH rather than believe any acquired homophobic bigotry from the internet.

I didn't acquire anything from the internet, nitwit.:doh: I came to terms with facts I had never considered regarding the actual text of the Bible. While it's true that people posting on the internet led me to take a look at what I had been taught in church vs. what's actually in the text I didn't simply concede because someone on the internet disagreed with me. I conceded because the facts were as they are: God commanded execution for homosexuals caught in the act of engaging in homosexual sodomy, that law was not secluded to Israel, He never repealed that law and these things were so for very good reasons.

 

[Doormat]

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin

The discussion starts on Folio 53a, most of it takes place in Folio 54a and Folio 54b, and finishes in Folio 55a.

If those commentaries are about homosexuality in general why do they keep referring to the act described in Leviticus 18:22 specifically as pederasty? Where are the commentaries that cover homosexuality in general?

 

[genuineoriginal]

What was ill phased about the question? Seriously. I asked "So what do you believe God wants done to homosexuals?"

How is that ill-framed? How does that impugn God's character? It's not, and it doesn't. So don't pull that. Get off it.

Yes, it impugns God's character.
Here is proof.
In this story, what does Travis want done to Old Yeller?

Old Yeller
The family pens Yeller in a corn crib for several weeks to watch him. Soon when Travis goes to feed Old Yeller, Yeller growls and snarls at Travis. After Yeller nearly attacks Arliss, who, not understanding the danger, had attempted to open the cage, a grieving Travis is forced to shoot Yeller.​

 

[zoo22]

Yes, it impugns God's character.
Here is proof.
In this story, what does Travis want done to Old Yeller?

Old Yeller
The family pens Yeller in a corn crib for several weeks to watch him. Soon when Travis goes to feed Old Yeller, Yeller growls and snarls at Travis. After Yeller nearly attacks Arliss, who, not understanding the danger, had attempted to open the cage, a grieving Travis is forced to shoot Yeller.​

He wants to shoot him to put him out of his misery. That doesn't impugn travis's character.

I'd asked "So what do you believe God wants done to homosexuals?" What about that is "impugning God's character with ill-framed questions?" Nothing. My question doesn't impugning God's character and it's not ill-phrased. So get off it.

You're impugning your own character by not being able answer questions honestly.

What do you believe God wants done to homosexuals?

And what do you want done to homosexuals, considering that you believe that God instituted the death penalty for homosexual sin?

 

[genuineoriginal]

If those commentaries are about homosexuality in general why do they keep referring to the act described in Leviticus 18:22 specifically as pederasty? Where are the commentaries that cover homosexuality in general?

I do not know why that particular term was used, but the explanations show it does cover homosexual sex.

Whence do I know that pederasty is punished by stoning? — Our Rabbis taught: [If a man lieth also with mankind, as the lyings of a woman,29 both of them have committed on abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them,]30 A man — excludes a minor; [that] lieth also with mankind — denotes whether an adult or a minor; as the lyings of a woman — this teaches that there are two modes of intimacy,31 both of which are punished when committed incestuously.

29 Lit. rendering of [H] translated 'as he lieth with a woman'.
30 Ibid. XX, 13.
31 Natural and unnatural.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

You have gone a long way from
"a grieving Travis is forced to shoot Yeller."
to:

He wants to shoot him Old Yeller

Maybe you have a definition of "want" that I am not familiar with.