genuineoriginal
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Can you stop people from being murderers with the threat of the gallows?
Executing homosexuals
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genuineoriginal
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genuineoriginal
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What makes you think the USA is a rational, sane country?
:rotfl:
Well let's see: You mentioned behavior modification (how Skinner of you), then ignored my question about this would be enforced or practiced. You support executing gay men and women if they don't "repent," which in reality would be nothing more than lip service. End of the day you're playing the sickest game of What If imaginable.
Doormat
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No. Romans 8:7, 1 John 3:15, what is evident in reality and common sense.
What stopped you from being an adulterer, was it God's forgiveness or the threat of being executed by men if they caught you?
You sure like to TWIST things! Perhaps, it's because your reasoning
is twisted! That would be my best guess!
genuineoriginal
New member
You are forgetting this:
1 Timothy 1:9-10 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; |
1 John 3:7 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. |
ALL sin is worthy of death! Get with the program! We're now
living at a time where God is offering His mercy, forgiveness,
and eternal life! You're still wanting to live in the Old
Testament times!
genuineoriginal
New member
I am still waiting to hear you say that homosexuals need to repent of their sins.
I am guessing you are too busy trying to campaign for Christians to accept gay marriage to bother.
genuineoriginal
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1 John 5:17 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. |
genuineoriginal
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It is in the Bible and addresses your statement.
John wrote the verse I quoted after Christ died and was resurrected, not before.
Doormat
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They are already dead in sin.
Whoever sins any sin is subject to the same fate absent repentance.
I believe people should not do what they wholeheartedly believe is sinful, whether or not the act is really sinful from God's perspective, and that those who do are hypocrites that will perish in the end. One major point you and I differ on is that I don't view homosexuality per se as a sin. The scriptures in Leviticus are about a very specific act, namely a married man committing adultery against his wife with another man. I believe it was written to preclude a possible adultery loophole for men. Furthermore, female homosexuality was not forbidden under the law in the extant text. It is also evident to me that homosexuality does not violate Matthew 7:12 and that all things not contrary to the golden rule are lawful (1Cor 10:23).
No. The heart of the gospel is that God is our Father and He loves us and forgives us. He loved us and forgave us before the cross.
Do you agree that a murderer can be restrained if he hears and believes the gospel? I do. That was the point of my response.
No. You paid the wages of sin, being found dead in your sin. Remember, Paul wrote that your old man was crucified with him. And Jesus did not die eternally, so he did not pay the wages of your sin. If all that was required was the first death to pay the wages of sin, you could have just died physically to pay your own debt. Furthermore, according to the law and the prophets, another person cannot die for your sins; only you can die for your sins.
He had to bare our sins in the sense he had suffer the hatred of men and the consequences of their hatred towards him (God) in order to demonstrate his love for them. The same as he told us to do.
genuineoriginal
New member
So, you find a way to throw out every verse that says it is a sin?
That would be an impossibility.
The Law of God given through Moses does not make any man guilty of adultery unless he has sex with another man's wife or another man's bethrothed.
The criteria for adultery is very specific in this regard.
True.
Now you are grasping at straws.
What part of "God forbid" and "Flee fornication" are you having problems understanding?
1 Corinthians 6:12-18 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. |
Then we didn't need the cross and Jesus died in vain?
Do you agree that it is easier for a murderer to repent than for a homosexual to repent because the murderer knows that his sin is worthy of the harshest penalty allowed by law? I do.
For the life of me, I cannot understand your argument here? How
does this verse back up the execution of homosexuals?
No where in the New Testament is there a call for the execution
of homosexuals, nor any other sinful types!
of homosexuals, nor any other sinful types!
God was dealing with the House of Israel in the
Old Testament!
Old Testament!
Doormat
New member
There is not one single verse in the entire Bible that states homosexuality per se is sin. You've already agreed that there is no scripture forbidding female homosexuality. We appear to disagree on the meaning of the verses in Leviticus you construe to be a general prohibition against male homosexuality.
Doormat said:
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
A prohibition against male homosexuality in general would read, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind." Period. If it stated that, I would agree that male homosexuality in general was considered a sin under the law, but it doesn't state that. The part of the verse I highlighted is a mistranslated conditional clause. Aside from the obvious fact that a man cannot have sex with a man as he does with a woman, the Hebrew word mistranslated in the conditional clause to "as with" does not mean "as with" (i.e. in like manner). That should be a big red flag since it completely alters the meaning you think you see in the verse.
Again, I see the verse meaning a man should not have sex with a married man, or put another way, a man should not have sex with a man who is having sex with a woman. Do you have an argument against my interpretation?
What part of Matthew 7:12 and all things being lawful are you having problems understanding? List everything you consider fornication, so your definition will be crystal clear. For example, do you consider anal sex between consenting married heterosexuals to be fornication? Do you consider it a sin at all? Answering those questions would help me understand your position better
Fornication is about idolatry. You're claiming homosexuality is fornication, but the use of the word in scripture undermines your position.
Jesus isn't dead. The penalty for sin is not satisfied by an immortal being "dying" temporarily. The wages of sin is eternal death, and you were dead in your sins when he saved you. Why were you dead if someone died to pay the penalty nearly 2000 years ago?
I don't. The law is transformational when the person understands why behavior contrary to Matthew 7:12 is sin, and that understanding comes through grace not law.
genuineoriginal
New member
The Law of God, given through Moses, provides different punishments for different crimes.
Some crimes require repayment plus a percentage.
Some crimes require flogging.
Some crimes require the death penalty.
When Paul states that those who do such are worthy of death, he is referring to the death penalty for those crimes in the Law.
When John states that there is a sin unto death, he is referring to the death penalty for specified crimes in the Law.
Good, because I am not calling for it either, I am calling for repentance of a crime that is so vile that God said it is worthy of the death penalty.