Europe Is Burning

[PureX]

Agreed!
Blaming America for all of the world's ills has become the posture assumed by short-sighted folks for many years now.

Just as is ignoring all the damage that our self-centered meddling has caused. So, now that we've eliminate these two pointless extremes. What's next?

 

[This Charming Manc]

Well the cold war was a big screw up right across the two thirds world, so our track record is good.

However problems around the iraq war we didn't create are as follows

• the shia - sunni divide
• the islamic value system
• the iran iraq war
• the gassing of the shia by saddam
• the oppression of the kurds by saddam
• the invasion of kuwait
• 911 and the rise of al Queida

the simple view that it would all be OK with the west meddling is just plain wrong i'm afraid.

They may be true but all too often we take a volatile or delicate situation and instantly make it worse. What "problems" did the locals cause in Iran before Britain and the U.S. got involved? The only "problem" I can think of is opposition to western meddling in their oil. You know what happened next. When we decided Saddam wasn't our pal anymore, we immediately made a bad situation incredibly worse. And on. And on. And. On.

 

[Granite]

You have become so buried in your biases that I find you unreachable.
This makes me sad.

So "no," then.

I haven't changed a bit.

You, however, have completely transformed since becoming a mod. I don't know what happens when you guys go purple. Sure ain't good.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Oh how I would love to have the posts and threads from several years ago to display where liberal and Libertarian TOL'ers alike stated that Islam is not a threat to western civilization.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Its not a serious threat the people saying it are wignuts like Farage and you.

We are in conflict with muslim extremists, our society isn't under threat

Oh how I would love to have the posts and threads from several years ago to display where liberal and Libertarian TOL'ers alike stated that Islam is not a threat to western civilization.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Its not a serious threat the people saying it are wignuts like Farage and you.

We are in conflict with muslim extremists, our society isn't under threat

Would it be ok if the United States deported all of the peace loving muzzies over to your neck of the woods since they're not "a serious threat"?

(I just want to sit back and watch the liberal Europeans get what they deserve).

 

[bybee]

Just as is ignoring all the damage that our self-centered meddling has caused. So, now that we've eliminate these two pointless extremes. What's next?

They are not pointless. They are stretching us to the breaking point. Negotiation seems to be an idea relegated to the past.
The next president will have a multi-mess on his/her hands.
If we were sensible we would elect someone who could steer us toward problem resolution and bring us together.
If not, outside forces will likely tear us apart.

 

[bybee]

So "no," then.

I haven't changed a bit.

You, however, have completely transformed since becoming a mod. I don't know what happens when you guys go purple. Sure ain't good.

I don't think so, but I'll think on it.
I have not changed my bottom lines. I've always been open to new ways of doing things.
I remain basically conservative fiscally but basically liberal when dealing with the needs of people.
But I dislike an attitude of entitlement. I also dislike it when the values which I espouse are treated with sneering disdain and I am pinned with pejorative labels.
I have agreed with you on many issues and disagreed with many others.
I do believe that we are responsible for our words and deeds and accountable for their effects. Consequences are earned and we ought to man up with dignity.
I am unswerving in my love of life, yours and mine regardless of
labels.

 

[Granite]

I don't think so, but I'll think on it.
I have not changed my bottom lines. I've always been open to new ways of doing things.
I remain basically conservative fiscally but basically liberal when dealing with the needs of people.
But I dislike an attitude of entitlement. I also dislike it when the values which I espouse are treated with sneering disdain and I am pinned with pejorative labels.
I have agreed with you on many issues and disagreed with many others.
I do believe that we are responsible for our words and deeds and accountable for their effects. Consequences are earned and we ought to man up with dignity.
I am unswerving in my love of life, yours and mine regardless of
labels.

Your opinions may not have changed but your approach has.

Not really the subject here, just an observation.

 

[aikido7]

Nostalgia is so tempting because of poor memories, we survived it and fear of the future.

In college I took Church History and after class we all still sitting in our seats looking at each other and remarked how sad it was. It is very hard to see a Guiding Hand. But as I see it humans are very prone to see the worst in everything until it's in the "personal memory" past.

I think it's amazing that our past troubles and conflicts can often be laughed at and enjoyed when we look back on them.

When a baby cries and we pick it up to cuddle and soothe it, we don't feel bad and we can smile as we're calming it. That's like God does for me. I am having a real problem (like the baby) but God is comforting and cheerful and knows everything is fine.

 

[Jose Fly]

Maybe if the west stopped meddling in the Middle East and giving these people reason to run, they'd stop running.

And quit arming them to the teeth.

 

[Jose Fly]

And let's not overlook the role climate change has played in all this mess...

Climate Change Hastened Syria's Civil War

A new study published today in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences says drought in Syria, exacerbated to record levels by global warming, pushed social unrest in that nation across a line into an open uprising in 2011. The conflict has since become a major civil war with international involvement.

Drying and drought in Syria from 2006 to 2011—the worst on record there—destroyed agriculture, causing many farm families to migrate to cities. The influx added to social stresses already created by refugees pouring in from the war in Iraq, explains Richard Seager, a climate scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory who co-authored the study. The drought also pushed up food prices, aggravating poverty. “We’re not saying the drought caused the war,” Seager said. “We’re saying that added to all the other stressors, it helped kick things over the threshold into open conflict. And a drought of that severity was made much more likely by the ongoing human-driven drying of that region.”

 

[The Berean]

I'm more concerned with how all these European nations are going to absorb all these refugees. No one seems to be talking about this. Is there enough housing, jobs, or schools for these people? Or are they just going to be pushed into poor areas and create new ghettos? The latter seems the much more likley outcome. This guy seem to get it.

.

 

[PureX]

They are not pointless. They are stretching us to the breaking point. Negotiation seems to be an idea relegated to the past.
The next president will have a multi-mess on his/her hands.
If we were sensible we would elect someone who could steer us toward problem resolution and bring us together.
If not, outside forces will likely tear us apart.

Presidents are basically puppets, now. America is just a big money pump for the new billionaire's club. We don't even know what's going on most of the time because our news is corporate sponsored propaganda, our politicians are corporate sponsored liars, our schools are just training grounds for more corporate sponsored lackies. And most of us wouldn't believe the truth even if we stumbled on it because we all think we're gonna be billionaires, one day, too.

 

[aikido7]

That is a valid and necessary criticism. Unfortunately people feel defensive and angry when they hear such things.

The refugee problem and the horrors of war and damage to innocent people has ALWYS been a fact of war. The horrific attacks on America in 2001 was just more of the same.

It's usually just been the families of veterans who have any inkling of what war does to people and the human spirit. Now we have 24/7cable news and the Internet.

It's finally "in our face" and we need to deal with it with every tool humanity has in its toolbox.

 

[aikido7]

I'm more concerned with how all these European nations are going to absorb all these refugees. No one seems to be talking about this. Is there enough housing, jobs, or schools for these people? Or are they just going to be pushed into poor areas and create new ghettos? The latter seems the much more likley outcome. This guy seem to get it.

.

Open hearts make open borders. Following the crisis, that's what I have concluded.

 

[The Berean]

Open hearts make open borders. Following the crisis, that's what I have concluded.

I don't follow aikido. :idunno:

 

[OCTOBER23]

EVERYTHING IS RELATIVES.

We are all related to Adam and Steve:wave:

 

[Angel4Truth]

ISIS exists because of the west. Our bad.

ISIS exists because of sin.

 

[drbrumley]

ISIS exists because of sin.

Well true, but so does the west. It exists because of sin.