Enyart vs. Glenn Beck and Natural Law

Jefferson

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Enyart vs. Glenn Beck and Natural Law

This is the show from Monday June 17th, 2013

SUMMARY:

Bob Enyart explains the weakness in the "natural law" concept and illustrates it with today's terrible quotes from Glenn Beck in which he condemned Moses for corrupting God's law with man's ideas, a totally false accusation that, if it were true, would invalidate the Ten Commandments themselves, the first five books of the Bible, and hence, the entirety of the Scriptures.
 
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Christian Liberty

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I don't think natural law is entirely an inaccurate concept but I agree with Enyart that Moses didn't add anything to God's Law. I think some of the things were intended solely for Israel as the Holy Nation, but all of it was of God.

Admittedly, seeing the names I instantly assumed this was a political debate until I read the thread...
 
Letsargue

Letsargue

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What?? – Someone said something wrong about Moses?? – WOW!! – Look at all the ( right stuff ) ain’t being taught because of all the foolish nonsense being taught by (( All ))!! – Glenn Beck? – I like Glenn Beck; he’s better than that ( Thing ) called ( “Obama” )!!!! – Jump that thing for bashing Christ!!! – Glenn Beck!!!! ????


Watch this!! - The word is OUT!!

Paul – 072413
 
C

Christian Liberty

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Glenn isn't a Libertarian, and Alan Keyes is a total moron who couldn't even figure out whether he thought the War in Iraq was a good idea or not.

Anyone who can't answer "No" to that within five seconds deserves nothing but laughter, yet Alan Keyes changed his position like five times in as many years.

Glenn Beck is correct that gay marriage, at least as far as the State is concerned, is an irrelevant issue. The State is evil anyway, let it endorse evil and show its true nature once again.

I'd rather it waste time on stupid crap like that than on plotting how to kill more people or steal more of our money.
 
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Christian Liberty

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drbrumley said:
So Alan Keyes believes in the collective? You?
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Glenn Beck is a mixed bag, but he's definitely better than Alan Keyes.

However, as a general rule I have little respect for anyone who got angered over Ron Paul's "Live By the Sword, Die By the Sword" comment. Those who do give lip service to anti-war positions while ultimately glorifying murder. Of course, that's part of politics, heaven knows Rand Paul has done it a thousand times, but I still don't like it, and I certainly expect better from a "libertarian" talk show host with nothing to lose.

Ron Paul > Glenn Beck > Alan Keyes
 
C

Christian Liberty

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drbrumley said:
Beck is a libertarian?
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Yeah, that was my question too.

Of course, to aCW, just like the progressives that he is ideologically aligned with (Remember that neo-cons ARE liberals) "libertarian" just means economically "conservative" (A term that in and of itself has been watered down, when I think of a real conservative I think of people like Rand Paul, or Chuck Baldwin, not people like Mitt Romney or Rick Santorum) and supporting gay marriage and possibly abortion. IIRC Reason mag called Paul Ryan "Libertarian" because he supported gay adoption. What the heck?

Its hard to consolidate liberty into a few issues seeing as how holistic libertarianism is as an ideology, but when I look for liberty minded people, I look for people who hate war, hate prohibition, hate gun control, hate taxes (Usually they hate income taxes but I don't really care so much what type of tax as I do that its extremely low) and hate the Federal Reserve. Abortion is a bit of a tricky issue seeing as how its important to liberty to get it right but liberty activists don't always agree on how to handle it (Lest anyone have missed it before, I'm firmly pro-life.) Gay marriage is just a joke and irrelevant. But of course aCW thinks that that is what a libertarian is.

I think its funny, aCW accused me of not being a pure libertarian because I didn't agree with supporting freaking child porn being legalized (One place where Mary Ruwart kind of lost her mind IMO) yet Beck is a libertarian since he supports SSM? What a joke!

We need a rule that only libertarians are allowed to talk about libertarianism:)
 
drbrumley

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RandPaulfor2016 said:
Yeah, that was my question too.

Of course, to aCW, just like the progressives that he is ideologically aligned with (Remember that neo-cons ARE liberals) "libertarian" just means economically "conservative" (A term that in and of itself has been watered down, when I think of a real conservative I think of people like Rand Paul, or Chuck Baldwin, not people like Mitt Romney or Rick Santorum) and supporting gay marriage and possibly abortion. IIRC Reason mag called Paul Ryan "Libertarian" because he supported gay adoption. What the heck?

Its hard to consolidate liberty into a few issues seeing as how holistic libertarianism is as an ideology, but when I look for liberty minded people, I look for people who hate war, hate prohibition, hate gun control, hate taxes (Usually they hate income taxes but I don't really care so much what type of tax as I do that its extremely low) and hate the Federal Reserve. Abortion is a bit of a tricky issue seeing as how its important to liberty to get it right but liberty activists don't always agree on how to handle it (Lest anyone have missed it before, I'm firmly pro-life.) Gay marriage is just a joke and irrelevant. But of course aCW thinks that that is what a libertarian is.

I think its funny, aCW accused me of not being a pure libertarian because I didn't agree with supporting freaking child porn being legalized (One place where Mary Ruwart kind of lost her mind IMO) yet Beck is a libertarian since he supports SSM? What a joke!

We need a rule that only libertarians are allowed to talk about libertarianism:)
Click to expand...

Most libertarians I know, esp. those within the Libertarian Party are more libertine than libertarian. I think ACW gets really confused on the difference between the two. Maybe one day he will understand.
 
aCultureWarrior

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drbrumley said:
Most libertarians I know, esp. those within the Libertarian Party are more libertine than libertarian. I think ACW gets really confused on the difference between the two. Maybe one day he will understand.
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aCW knows your cult much better than you do Doc (you guys just want to push drugs, prostitution and same sex sodomy on others through legislation, while personally abhorring those behaviors).

Regarding your post on "the collective":

"Beck fails to understand this symmetry because he rejects or refuses to think through the provisions God has made for our good. As I’ve often pointed out, the God-endowed family represents the paradigm of God’s natural law for human community. Parents who accept their obligation to care for the child of their bodily union pay due respect to their own unity as individuals; but at the same time they acknowledge the collective (man, woman, child) through which their unity is specifically expressed and perpetuated. As an individual, the authority of the helpless child subdues the parents’ will. Though they are greater than the child as individuals, the parents accept to be the servants of the concept of the collective engendered by their consensual act of procreation. The whole which together they all constitute (the family) arises from the obligation to do what is right for each individual human being, as determined by the goodwill of the Creator; but also what is right also for the whole species, apart from which the self-conception of humanity cannot take place."
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/glenn-beck-had-already-surrendered/#wO68tZKm6WbyUXfr.99

What in that paragraph do you as a Libertarian, disagree with?
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

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aCultureWarrior said:
aCW knows your cult much better than you do Doc (you guys just want to push drugs, prostitution and same sex sodomy on others through legislation, while personally abhorring those behaviors).
Click to expand...

Right there just goes to show you have no clue. We don't PUSH things onto people.

aCultureWarrior said:
Regarding your post on "the collective":

"Beck fails to understand this symmetry because he rejects or refuses to think through the provisions God has made for our good. As I’ve often pointed out, the God-endowed family represents the paradigm of God’s natural law for human community. Parents who accept their obligation to care for the child of their bodily union pay due respect to their own unity as individuals; but at the same time they acknowledge the collective (man, woman, child) through which their unity is specifically expressed and perpetuated. As an individual, the authority of the helpless child subdues the parents’ will. Though they are greater than the child as individuals, the parents accept to be the servants of the concept of the collective engendered by their consensual act of procreation. The whole which together they all constitute (the family) arises from the obligation to do what is right for each individual human being, as determined by the goodwill of the Creator; but also what is right also for the whole species, apart from which the self-conception of humanity cannot take place."
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/glenn-beck-had-already-surrendered/#wO68tZKm6WbyUXfr.99

What in that paragraph do you as a Libertarian, disagree with?
Click to expand...



The collective
 
WizardofOz

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drbrumley said:
Right there just goes to show you have no clue. We don't PUSH things onto people.
Click to expand...

Even aCW doesn't buy what he's shoveling there. He likes to mischaracterize in order to "win" debate points (while losing credibility, as if he had any to lose).
 
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Paulos

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WizardofOz said:
aCW refers to himself in the 3rd person. :eek:

Do you "push" blasphemy or cigarettes? Your legalization = approval theory has been thorough debunked.

You conveniently stopped posting in that thread after this post to you.
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aCW thinks cigarettes should be kept legal? I wish he'd quit pushing cigarettes on me. Cigarette smoke gives me headaches and makes me feel ill.

And Mormonism should be kept legal too? Why does aCW want to push Mormonism on me? He must want me to become a Mormon if he thinks Mormonism should be kept legal. He might personally abhor Mormonism, but he's pushing it on me if he thinks it should be kept legal.
 
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C

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
Paulos said:
aCW thinks cigarettes should be legal? I wish he'd quit pushing cigarettes on me. Cigarette smoke gives me headaches and makes me feel ill.

And Mormonism should be legal too? Why does aCW want to push Mormonism on me? He must want me to become a Mormon if he thinks Mormonism should be legal. He might personally abhor Mormonism, but he's pushing it on me if he thinks it should be legal.
Click to expand...

:thumb:

Granite said:
Beck's no libertarian. He's just a grotesque con man.
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I'd save "Grotesque" for Mark Levin and Limbaugh. But Beck is definitely not a libertarian. Just a moderate progressive.
drbrumley said:
Most libertarians I know, esp. those within the Libertarian Party are more libertine than libertarian. I think ACW gets really confused on the difference between the two. Maybe one day he will understand.
Click to expand...

I don't actually know any libertarians who are libertines. Although, I don't think I know any libertarians in real life who are as pure as I am when it comes to the ideology.

As for aCW, he should read this excellent article

I know he won't, but he should.

aCultureWarrior said:
aCW knows your cult much better than you do Doc (you guys just want to push drugs, prostitution and same sex sodomy on others through legislation, while personally abhorring those behaviors).

Regarding your post on "the collective":

"Beck fails to understand this symmetry because he rejects or refuses to think through the provisions God has made for our good. As I’ve often pointed out, the God-endowed family represents the paradigm of God’s natural law for human community. Parents who accept their obligation to care for the child of their bodily union pay due respect to their own unity as individuals; but at the same time they acknowledge the collective (man, woman, child) through which their unity is specifically expressed and perpetuated. As an individual, the authority of the helpless child subdues the parents’ will. Though they are greater than the child as individuals, the parents accept to be the servants of the concept of the collective engendered by their consensual act of procreation. The whole which together they all constitute (the family) arises from the obligation to do what is right for each individual human being, as determined by the goodwill of the Creator; but also what is right also for the whole species, apart from which the self-conception of humanity cannot take place."
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/glenn-beck-had-already-surrendered/#wO68tZKm6WbyUXfr.99

What in that paragraph do you as a Libertarian, disagree with?
Click to expand...

Nothing at all. But Keyes is still a moron, despite not saying anything I disagree with here.
WizardofOz said:
aCW refers to himself in the 3rd person. :eek:

Do you "push" blasphemy or cigarettes? Your legalization = approval theory has been thorough debunked.

You conveniently stopped posting in that thread after this post to you.
Click to expand...

But... but that's not the same thing! Because reasons!
 
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