Elephants, evolution, and cancer

[fzappa13]

I suppose that's true that we all have faith in something, but by "y'all" I'm referring to Christians, since the Bible tells you to do so.

... and I am referring to everyone. We each choose the paradigm that suits us. What suits us quite often changes over time ... that is, for those of us open to continued external input. Some of us become static in our beliefs during what are, possibly misnamed, our "formative years." Ideally, you learn as long as you live, or, as my dearly departed father used to say, "If you're not learning you're dead already." Some folks seem to find their little happy spot and then spend the rest of their life defending that spot against all comers. Go figure.

 

[Interplanner]

Very good! Yes, we walk by faith.*

You might be family with a verse that says "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

IOW...we have faith based on evidence, and not a blind faith.*

Yet both of those lines sound evidence-free, which is not what he meant. That's why Oct23 explained about how hydrogen is not seen initially...

The Bible is not shooting itself in the foot here. The earth was there, formless and void, but God formed it. To go from the chaotic state to the humanly-viable state is what Hebrews is referring to. The infinite power and design of God is the unseen.

Lyell, OTOH, did shoot himself in the foot. He said that U'ism has to be based on "processes we can see." That's sounds right at first, until you realize the geologic landscape is fraught with evidence of speed, force, convulsion, transfers of thousands of miles, rapid deposition, piles of loess accumulating so fast that thousands of mammoths could not function in it, etc. He, and the followers of U'ism, made way too many broad declarations when they were in very naive stages of the skill of geologic interp.

 

[MrDeets]

Very good! Yes, we walk by faith.*

You might be family with a verse that says "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

IOW...we have faith based on evidence, and not a blind faith.*

If you had facts for what you believe, there would be no need for faith.

... and I am referring to everyone. We each choose the paradigm that suits us. What suits us quite often changes over time ... that is, for those of us open to continued external input. Some of us become static in our beliefs during what are, possibly misnamed, our "formative years." Ideally, you learn as long as you live, or, as my dearly departed father used to say, "If you're not learning you're dead already." Some folks seem to find their little happy spot and then spend the rest of their life defending that spot against all comers. Go figure.

If you're trying to imply that I am in my little happy spot now, you're sorely mistaken. If you'll notice I've been a member here for 5 years... I posted for a LONG time as a christian(which I'd been since I was very young... "my formative years") . I was a part of some secret groups. It's BECAUSE of external input that I find myself no longer believing what I'd been taught. I am now, because of external input, constantly learning and changing. :e4e:

 

[glorydaz]

If you had facts for what you believe, there would be no need for faith.

Evidence for things unseen.....

You can't see love, but you can experience it.

You can't see hate, but you can experience it.

You can't see greed, but you see the effects of it.

You can't see selfishness, but you can feel it.

 

[ok doser]

them's the facts! :thumb:

 

[patrick jane]

I suppose that's true that we all have faith in something, but by "y'all" I'm referring to Christians, since the Bible tells you to do so.

I think your wife/girlfriend talked you into atheism, or your friends. Not necessarily "talked" you into it, but leading by example.

Or that tattoo ink on your neck seeped into your brain y'all !!!


you are blown like chaff -

Psalm 35:5 KJV - Colossians 2:8 KJV - Ephesians 4:14 KJV


2 Timothy 4:1 KJV -

 

[fzappa13]

If you're trying to imply that I am in my little happy spot now, you're sorely mistaken. If you'll notice I've been a member here for 5 years... I posted for a LONG time as a christian(which I'd been since I was very young... "my formative years") . I was a part of some secret groups. It's BECAUSE of external input that I find myself no longer believing what I'd been taught. I am now, because of external input, constantly learning and changing. :e4e:

As I said previously, I was talking about humanity in general. If something I said pricked your conscious you will have to be the one to account for that. I'm a little curious about your reference to "secret groups". I've never knowingly involved myself in such though I am familiar with several and I've often wondered what the attraction was. I've pretty much "worn my heart on my sleeve" as the saying goes.

As it concerns "external input" my only advice would be to discern the intent of those offering it.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

We can immortalize individual cell's.

By disabling something called --hold on to your hat if you've never heard of this --programmed, cell, death.

:think:


DJ

1.0
​

 

[MrDeets]

I think your wife/girlfriend talked you into atheism, or your friends. Not necessarily "talked" you into it, but leading by example.

No sir. I was and am the only atheist in my family, except for another anonymous member of my family who told me he was an atheist once I'd told the family. None of my friends are atheists, either, though my two closest friends aren't exactly religious. I have a very honest blog post on my TOL page, if you're interested.

Or that tattoo ink on your neck seeped into your brain y'all !!!

This made me giggle. Thank you. :chuckle:

As I said previously, I was talking about humanity in general. If something I said pricked your conscious you will have to be the one to account for that.

Eh, not too much. I couldn't tell if you were speaking about me or not, so I thought best to address that. I wasn't being rude intentionally. :e4e:

I'm a little curious about your reference to "secret groups". I've never knowingly involved myself in such though I am familiar with several and I've often wondered what the attraction was. I've pretty much "worn my heart on my sleeve" as the saying goes.

It was a way of connecting more closely with like minded believers, and having conversations without the endless trolling and flame wars that happen so often around here.

As it concerns "external input" my only advice would be to discern the intent of those offering it.

Definitely, but when people are young, it's very hard to be discerning. Besides, what kid's don't trust their parents to speak the truth? :sigh:

 

[fzappa13]

Eh, not too much. I couldn't tell if you were speaking about me or not, so I thought best to address that. I wasn't being rude intentionally. :e4e:

I believe you. I have yet to see you be intentionally rude.

It was a way of connecting more closely with like minded believers, and having conversations without the endless trolling and flame wars that happen so often around here.

I understand the inclination.

Definitely, but when people are young, it's very hard to be discerning. Besides, what kid's don't trust their parents to speak the truth? :sigh:

Reeeeeely good point. Most of what we think of the world around us is seen through the prism that is the view of our elders. Sometimes this is good ... sometimes it can be something of a hurdle. I have long been grateful that my parents were agnostic and I didn't have to unlearn anything as it concerned the Bible. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

This made me giggle. Thank you. :chuckle:

Why do I find it so humorous to think of Mr. Deets giggling?

 

[Interplanner]

catch a discussion of the impact of the Enlightenment on epistemology and cosmology at http://cedarpark.churchonline.org/

It's Dr. Nurre, geologist, on right now

 

[MrDeets]

Reeeeeely good point. Most of what we think of the world around us is seen through the prism that is the view of our elders. Sometimes this is good ... sometimes it can be something of a hurdle. I have long been grateful that my parents were agnostic and I didn't have to unlearn anything as it concerned the Bible. :chuckle:

I agree. I am grateful to my parents for much of what they taught me, and I wouldn't trade them for any other parents, but their faith would fit in well here on TOL. It's very a very conservative, literal type faith. It was not an easy process to lay all that down.

Why do I find it so humorous to think of Mr. Deets giggling?

I've heard many times that I have a contagious laugh... but I didn't know that it could translate through type. :rotfl:

 

[fzappa13]

I agree. I am grateful to my parents for much of what they taught me, and I wouldn't trade them for any other parents, but their faith would fit in well here on TOL. It's very a very conservative, literal type faith. It was not an easy process to lay all that down.

I don't know that it is necessary to lay it all down ... surely you can sift through it all and come away with some nuggets of value. Another thing to bear in mind is that what is useful to us, or maybe better said what we are able to hear, changes over time ... if we are growing.

Growing seems to be something of a theme with me as of late. Maybe I'm trying to give myself a pep talk. Growing at 60 is a little trickier than it might sound but a tree does indeed grow until it dies.

 

[MrDeets]

I don't know that it is necessary to lay it all down ... surely you can sift through it all and come away with some nuggets of value. Another thing to bear in mind is that what is useful to us, or maybe better said what we are able to hear, changes over time ... if we are growing.

When I said "all" I meant that regarding specifically religion and faith, not some of the morals and a few other things. It's been around 2 years since I really got to an "agnostic" position, and though I've chilled quite a bit, I don't see myself going back to the faith or God(s) anytime soon. That's not to say never, though. Never say never, amiright??

Growing seems to be something of a theme with me as of late. Maybe I'm trying to give myself a pep talk. Growing at 60 is a little trickier than it might sound but a tree does indeed grow until it dies.

What an awesome perspective... " a tree grows till it dies". That's going in my quote list! :up:

 

[fzappa13]

When I said "all" I meant that regarding specifically religion and faith, not some of the morals and a few other things. It's been around 2 years since I really got to an "agnostic" position, and though I've chilled quite a bit, I don't see myself going back to the faith or God(s) anytime soon. That's not to say never, though. Never say never, amiright??

Yep. I deliberately resisted Christianity because the culture I was born into shoved it down my throat. I only came to inspect the issue much later because intellectual honesty demanded I give it a fair hearing as well.

What an awesome perspective... " a tree grows till it dies". That's going in my quote list! :up:

Well, to be honest, that notion predates me somewhat ...

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.

23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

 

[MrDeets]

Well, to be honest, that notion predates me somewhat ...

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.

23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

You sneaky son of a gun... :AMR: :chuckle:

 

[fzappa13]

You sneaky son of a gun... :AMR: :chuckle:

Gotcha ...

 

[George Affleck]

A person never reaches maturity until they forgive their parents for being imperfect.