ECT During the 1000 yr reign of Jesus . .

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During the 1000 yr reign of Jesus here on earth, sin and rebellion will still be an issue but without the influence of Satan in the mix, him having locked up and locked down by Jesus, which will make sin purely of fallen human nature from those who would still rather do their own thing than obey the Law of God. Jesus will rule with a rod iron. But why will men still refuse to obey Him?
 

Crucible

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"Millennialism is a fiction that is too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation"

Your pal,
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Interplanner

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The Rev is saturated with symbols. It is also about things that were to happen immediately.

1000 in the OT often just means a very long time.

But don't generate any doctrine from the Rev if it is not elsewhere clearly in the NT. 2 Pet 3 is the most clear about what the 2nd coming is like and there is nothing in it about anything in Israel or anything Judaic.

You might notice that at the end, there is a small rebellion, before the NHNE. when you match that to 2 Pet 3, the millenium seems to be be the present time, not a future one.

Finally, like 2 Pet 3, there is no theological 'need' for things to happen in Israel which is how the millenium is usually referred to. It is often thought of as a time when unfinished business takes place and Christ reigns through Israel on earth. But that was never going to happen. This is the time of the mission of the Gospel until the NHNE. Christ reigns, eph 1, but not everyone accepts it.
 

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The Rev is saturated with symbols. It is also about things that were to happen immediately.

1000 in the OT often just means a very long time.

But don't generate any doctrine from the Rev if it is not elsewhere clearly in the NT. 2 Pet 3 is the most clear about what the 2nd coming is like and there is nothing in it about anything in Israel or anything Judaic.

You might notice that at the end, there is a small rebellion, before the NHNE. when you match that to 2 Pet 3, the millenium seems to be be the present time, not a future one.

Finally, like 2 Pet 3, there is no theological 'need' for things to happen in Israel which is how the millenium is usually referred to. It is often thought of as a time when unfinished business takes place and Christ reigns through Israel on earth. But that was never going to happen. This is the time of the mission of the Gospel until the NHNE. Christ reigns, eph 1, but not everyone accepts it.

It is clearly elsewhere. Try reading it sometime. Begin with Zechariah 14.
 

Interplanner

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It is clearly elsewhere. Try reading it sometime. Begin with Zechariah 14.



There is no place larger or more clear on the 2nd coming than 2 Pet 3. That's my point. Zech is more difficult and removed than the Rev. So what do people who want to believe in the Mill do? they ignore all the NT references/uses of Zech! Oh great, now there is double darkness. When Christ and the apostles used Zech it was all about Christ's Gospel. Nothing they quote is clearly about the Mill.

Then there is Acts 26. What Israel keeps looking for through temple services is already fulfilled in the Resurrection, which echoes the sermon in 13:32+

The Resurrection proves God's word and reliablity. Why would there need to be a kingdom in Israel.
 

Lazy afternoon

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During the 1000 yr reign of Jesus here on earth, sin and rebellion will still be an issue but without the influence of Satan in the mix, him having locked up and locked down by Jesus, which will make sin purely of fallen human nature from those who would still rather do their own thing than obey the Law of God. Jesus will rule with a rod iron. But why will men still refuse to obey Him?


Same as now for the mortal believer.

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Lazy afternoon

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There is no place larger or more clear on the 2nd coming than 2 Pet 3. That's my point. Zech is more difficult and removed than the Rev. So what do people who want to believe in the Mill do? they ignore all the NT references/uses of Zech! Oh great, now there is double darkness. When Christ and the apostles used Zech it was all about Christ's Gospel. Nothing they quote is clearly about the Mill.

Then there is Acts 26. What Israel keeps looking for through temple services is already fulfilled in the Resurrection, which echoes the sermon in 13:32+

The Resurrection proves God's word and reliablity. Why would there need to be a kingdom in Israel.

Gods people are always Gods Israel.

Daniel being elevated to sole ruler under the King with the wicked other two destroyed who tried to destroy Daniel is the pattern for the rising of the saints to power over the nations.(as promised)

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

LA
 

Cross Reference

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There is no place larger or more clear on the 2nd coming than 2 Pet 3. That's my point. Zech is more difficult and removed than the Rev. So what do people who want to believe in the Mill do? they ignore all the NT references/uses of Zech! Oh great, now there is double darkness. When Christ and the apostles used Zech it was all about Christ's Gospel. Nothing they quote is clearly about the Mill.

Then there is Acts 26. What Israel keeps looking for through temple services is already fulfilled in the Resurrection, which echoes the sermon in 13:32+

The Resurrection proves God's word and reliablity. Why would there need to be a kingdom in Israel.

The scenario is in place. The time frame is correct. There is nothing that needs figuring out. Why not let Zech 14 say EXACTLY what it says and calculate with it in mind?
 

Interplanner

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Because that is not how the NT used the book and the NT never uses it about a future event that is beyond the Gospel event. The quotation rate is quite high yet the D'ists try to go higher with their own beliefs, because they've been taught 2P2P. He never meant to validate a 2nd program. It is only about how those images are true in the Gospel, for ex., the victory over the nations. It is about how they are true in Christ, not in literal Judaistic theocracy.

There is no passage that is close to a timeline even in the sense of Rev 20+, and I'm not saying that it is a 'timeline' in the modern sense. Do you think a specific passage is a timeline? Which one?

Look at the idea of 1000 throughout OT passages, and it is simply another way to say vast. There are not exactly 1000 hills in Israel on which God owns cattle, for ex.
 

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The scenario is in place. The time frame is correct. There is nothing that needs figuring out. Why not let Zech 14 say EXACTLY what it says and calculate with it in mind?

Why not think about it a little longer after reading it again, for the first time. FINE.
 

Interplanner

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The scenario is in place. The time frame is correct. There is nothing that needs figuring out. Why not let Zech 14 say EXACTLY what it says and calculate with it in mind?

Why not think about it a little longer after reading it again, for the first time. FINE.


What is living water?

If the victory is so great, why do half the city go into exile, v2, and all the women raped? Oh great, they don't count!

Try to get into the symbolic mode of thought; the literal will drive you crazy. And don't go beyond what the apostles quoted out of it and why they did.
 

Lazy afternoon

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The true believers, regardless of Jew or Gentile, are the Israel of God who will be gathered at Christ's return.

Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
Deu 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deu 30:7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
Deu 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
Deu 30:9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.


ALL Pauls doctrine came from the OT. by revelation from God.


Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

LA
 

Interplanner

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There is no comparison between the amount of symbolism in Zech 14 and 2 Peter 3. We must go with the outline of 2 Peter 3, and if odds and ends in Zech fit, great, but no apostle used anything in Zech about the 2nd coming, that I know of. They always used it in reference to the Gospel event.
 

Lazy afternoon

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There is no comparison between the amount of symbolism in Zech 14 and 2 Peter 3. We must go with the outline of 2 Peter 3, and if odds and ends in Zech fit, great, but no apostle used anything in Zech about the 2nd coming, that I know of. They always used it in reference to the Gospel event.

Zec 2:1 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
Zec 2:2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.
Zec 2:3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
Zec 2:4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Zec 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
Zec 2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
Zec 2:9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
Zec 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
Zec 2:13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.
 

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What is living water?

If the victory is so great, why do half the city go into exile, v2, and all the women raped? Oh great, they don't count!

Try to get into the symbolic mode of thought; the literal will drive you crazy. And don't go beyond what the apostles quoted out of it and why they did.

Am I asking about the events leading up to the 1k reign of Christ, no!
 

Totton Linnet

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One thing I do glean from Ezekiel 40 is that the kingdom is to be rolled out over the whole earth from Jerusalem...that little river that springs up from under the eastern gate that becomes a mighty life giving river welling into a torrent. First Ezeke was able to walk ankle deep, but then further along found himself wading and yet further on was forced to swim.

I'm thinking that as the kingdom spreads abroad and the glory of it, the enemies of God will be pushed back to the ends of the earth. Any who do not retreat nor come into obedience will be slain
 
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