Does TOL get us anywhere?
- Thread starter heartless_Adam
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Does TOL get us anywhere?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Does TOL get us anywhere?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Does TOL get us anywhere?
Relax, that included the general public as well. TOL is gaining in popularity though...:angel:Originally posted by Zakath
"hundreds of millions" of TOL posters???
Hundreds, I believe.
Thousand or more, maybe...
But "hundreds of millions"?
:chuckle:
Glad to help set you on the "straight and narrow, AD.
temple2006
New member
Omega...Zak is in the same boat as we are. His BELIEF is that there is no God. He cannot prove that.
Your dilemma is shared by millions. One can only look to divine revelation and the gift of faith for comfort and assurance. I believe that God exists as strongly as I know my pick-up truck is parked in my drive way. I don't see it but I know it's there.
Defending the existence of God by human logic is a fool's errand. BillyBob, it's all a matter of faith. Faith that can move mountains is faith enough to acknowledge the existence of God. :angel:
Balder
New member
I just read the article you cited, Art. Are you sure you understood it? The author denies that polylogism exists, therefore he is not saying that it is impossible to communicate and therefore fighting (or engaging in preemptive strikes) is the only answer. Further, he is against war and against what Bush the younger is doing.
His argument against polylogism -- that it is self-refuting -- is the old "performative contradiction" argument. I would agree with him that there are certain deep structures to logic that appear to be universal, but there is also abundant evidence that cognitive capacity is developmental and not all forms of logical reasoning are available to all people at all times. The same goes for moral reasoning. In this sense, there are "multiple" logical and moral structures that guide human thinking, but they are not random nor are they immutable and unbridgeable.
So, his refutation of polylogism is rather shallow, in my opinion. If he wants to refute the idea that every human group or culture inhabits its own island and is completely alien and inaccessible to everyone else, then of course I agree with that. But that is a straw man, in my opinion; I know of very few people who would argue such an extreme position.
Peace,
Balder
His argument against polylogism -- that it is self-refuting -- is the old "performative contradiction" argument. I would agree with him that there are certain deep structures to logic that appear to be universal, but there is also abundant evidence that cognitive capacity is developmental and not all forms of logical reasoning are available to all people at all times. The same goes for moral reasoning. In this sense, there are "multiple" logical and moral structures that guide human thinking, but they are not random nor are they immutable and unbridgeable.
So, his refutation of polylogism is rather shallow, in my opinion. If he wants to refute the idea that every human group or culture inhabits its own island and is completely alien and inaccessible to everyone else, then of course I agree with that. But that is a straw man, in my opinion; I know of very few people who would argue such an extreme position.
Peace,
Balder
Chileice
New member
Is TOL supposed to get us anywhere? I started a thread once on this same topic. But later I thought although people are passionate, it is more of a recreational activity than out and out intelligent debate. Although we are able to maintain some good discussions at times there always seems to be someone with an agenda to hijack the thread. What would be fun is to have threads that were limited to discussion without personal attacks, and other open threads where people could let the fur fly. It might be too hard to administer but it would make a space for everyone and for the mood one was in on that particular day.
I don't feel as though I am in a dilemma, I was just applying logic to the concept of God.
That is an interesting analogy. Can you be 100% sure that you truck is in your driveway without looking? I can think of a few scenarios where it might have been removed from your driveway while you were sleeping. Apply that same thinking to your concept of God and His existence.
I would not disagree with you, it is a matter of faith, not proof.
Re-read the opening sentence.: Just recently I lectured a group of students at the Mises University on polylogism and its problems, and it dawned on me that the prevalence of polylogism in the modern world may be one of the reasons the world is threatening to explode in any number of places.
Posted by Balder:
In fact Balder, they are so shallow as not to exist at all. He did not refute the concept of polylogism. We need only look at the abortion issue to see polylogism in action.
heartless_Adam
New member
QUOTE BY OMEGA: NEW GUY ,
I have been on this forum for over 5 years and
seen many people (like you) come and go .
I have had to Defend my opinions and
changed my outlook when more learned posters
presented their documentation.
It has made me Stronger in the Faith .
I find TOL one of the most TOLERANT forums on the Net.
and Knight is one of the BEST Webmasters on the Net.
If you doubt my word, try posting your opinions on the following forum and see how fast they BAN YOU .
ALRIGHT, keep your hat on darling.
Why would we be banned from this web sight Omega? Is it basically a bunch of closed minded, ignorant, intolerant hate mongers who regard there faith like some sort of neo-nazism?
I hate people like that. Don't you?
I have been on this forum for over 5 years and
seen many people (like you) come and go .
I have had to Defend my opinions and
changed my outlook when more learned posters
presented their documentation.
It has made me Stronger in the Faith .
I find TOL one of the most TOLERANT forums on the Net.
and Knight is one of the BEST Webmasters on the Net.
If you doubt my word, try posting your opinions on the following forum and see how fast they BAN YOU .
ALRIGHT, keep your hat on darling.
Why would we be banned from this web sight Omega? Is it basically a bunch of closed minded, ignorant, intolerant hate mongers who regard there faith like some sort of neo-nazism?
I hate people like that. Don't you?
heartless_Adam
New member
Quote by mustard seed: Sure there's always the hope you affect someone and change them for the better. However if I spent my time trying to better myself and not worry as much about everyone else I would likely be better off and perhaps better capable of influencing others in my life. I am not going to say that the debate is utterly futile nor that it doesn't, at times, bring about good. But I am seriously thinking about forsaking it. I think I may have said enough at this point to be reaching the point of diminishing returns. Then there's always that stupid worry that's really unfounded that if I sware it off that someone will be able to undo any good I might have accomplished through any number of mediums.
Good points? Kudos.
Good points? Kudos.