You talk about God's mercy and yet you claim God hates sinners He created with the intention of burning in hell forever because He refused to make it possible for them to be saved.
Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
If they believe after hearing, they can become "unnatural".
Faith cometh by hearing.
Faith isn't innate at birth, but can become the chief characteristic of those you deem "unnatural" after they hear the gospel.
Are the faithful natural or unnatural?
Doesn't that prove to you that men can change their status in the eyes of God?
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beloved57
Well-known member
Here is the plight of the natural man, he doesnt believe, he doest seek God, he doesnt understand. His only hope is if hes born again, which he has no say so in that matter.
I can only guess then, that your sect doesn't do evangelizing or missionary work.
What would be the point if none will hear and understand the grace, glory, or fear of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Derf
Well-known member
Not true! B57 has been evangelizing here at TOL for years, though he's logically inconsistent in doing so.
You read your doctrine into every passage you read and think you've presented a proof text! You are quite literally blinded by your own rhetoric. You won't even rationally discuss anything because you can't. You redefined every theological word of any importance to the point that you aren't even talking the same language as normal English speaking people.
You may be right, but he doesn't offer the freedom that life in Christ offers to those who obey Him.
He has no way to prove one is or isn't "chosen" for an eternity full of love and gladness.
Just a vague hope.
For those "unnatural" men who CHOSE to follow the chief Shepherd, there are abundant proofs.
Derf
Well-known member
Including himself!
Keep praying for the ones led astray.
beloved57
Well-known member
The natural man doesnt seek after God, nor understands God ! Thats a fact of scripture Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Now this refers to the True God, but man does seek after a god, an idol, that comes natural
You read your doctrine into every passage you read and think you've presented a proof text! You are quite literally blinded by your own rhetoric. You won't even rationally discuss anything because you can't. You redefined every theological word of any importance to the point that you aren't even talking the same language as normal English speaking people.
beloved57
Well-known member
So Rom 3:11 is my doctrine and not the word of God ?
One verse of the word of God is your doctrine.
But that verse is without context, in the way it is used by you.
It was written in the time of David and cited by Paul to show the Jews that all men, Jew and Gentile, needed a Redeemer.
Paul was making an effort to make the Jewish readers quit thinking they were in any wise better than Gentiles.
Kind of putting them in their place, so to speak.
The very fact that Paul uses the verse from Psalms shows it isn't relevant anymore in a time outside of David's lament.
We were all natural men before we herd and believed.
But a transformation occurred that freed us from the "natural".
We heard, and believed.
Believing made us "unnatural", in the sense that David wrote.
beloved57
Well-known member
One verse is enough, its the word of God ! Does man seek after God according to Rom 3:11 ?
One misinterpreted verse will have to be enough for Calvinists wanting to mischaracterize God as a hateful, vengeful, unmerciful God who takes pleasure in burning His helpless creatures in the lake of fire for no human reason.
I did some more studying on "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (Rom 3:11)
to see from where it is based.
I was led to Psalm 14:1 and 53:1-3..."The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
So where did David get that?
Numbers 32:10-15..."
Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:
12 Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the Lord.
13 And the Lord's anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the Lord, was consumed.
14 And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the Lord toward Israel.
15 For if ye turn away from after him, he will yet again leave them in the wilderness; and ye shall destroy all this people."
So Paul got it from David, who got it from Moses, as spoken by God about the faithless spies sent to scope out the promised land.
The "all" of Romans 3:11 were they who were afraid of the residents of the promised land.
Paul was simply telling the Jews still in the OT that they were just like the faithless spies of yore.
To assign it to modern men is to say that nobody has faith, which is untrue.
Even back in Moses' time, Caleb and Joshua DID have faith.
Paul's "ALL" is merely a generality.
I pray you will reconsider your POV.
beloved57
Well-known member
You can study for days friend, yet the natural man doesnt seek after God, nor understands God, the True God that is Rom 3:10-11
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
As it was with the natural man in the OT so it is with him in the NT, for mans sinful nature doesnt change !
If God refuses to allow millions of sinners any possibility of getting saved then He is not a merciful God in Calvinist theology.
I thank God I wasn't a natural man.
Hearing something I believed changed me.
Thanks be to God for allowing me to change my mind, and my fate.
It was written..."No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:44)
I was drawn to God, and to His promises, and changed from a natural man to a sensible one.
One sensible enough to repent of sin and get baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
One sensible enough to crucify the flesh and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Praise be to God.
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PureX
Well-known member
Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
Hmmm ... I would say that man has a natural innate desire to understand the 'great mystery of being'. And most would call the source/solution to that mystery, "God". So in that sense mankind certainly has the desire to "seek God".But do we have the ability?
To seek, sure. But to resolve the mystery? I would say, no. I just don't think we humans possess the capacity to grasp the existence and nature of what we call "God". It is simply beyond us. And as a result, the best we can do is choose to trust in the source of that great mystery: in it's wisdom and benevolence.
At least that's what I'm choosing to do.