Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[beloved57]

No man naturally can believe on Christ nor even believe in the True God, for what saith the scripture Lk 10:21-22

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Now to call upon the name of Jesus for Salvation as per Rom 10, the person must know who the Son is to believe Him Rom 10:14

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

There can be no true calling upon Christ without Faith and the knowledge of who He is and what He accomplished and for whom. Yet Jesus reveals that naturally "no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father"

So who Christ is in His True Glorious Person must be revealed to a man as it was to Peter here Matt 16:16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

See Peter was Blessed, he didnt know who Jesus Christ really was by natural man ability but by Divine revelation.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, you didn't answer the question.

WHEN does a man die spiritually? Because man is not dead at birth, so he must be alive at least for a little bit after birth, no?

"In Adam" is not "when." It's "where," it means "in the flesh."

yes i did. You dont accept it, thats on you.

No, you did not. You answered a question about something that isn't in dispute, but not what I asked you.

When does a man die spiritually, since he is not dead from the womb?



It has nothing to do with whether I accept it, because "it" hasn't been provided yet, "it" being the answer to my question.

It's one thing for me to reject your answer. It's quite another for me to reject something that you haven't even provided. So answer the question of WHEN, NOT WHERE!

Still waiting for you to answer my question, B57.

 

[beloved57]

Mike Mcinnis writes:

David said, “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” (Psa 14:1). A cursory reading of what David is saying, might lead one to believe that he is describing an Atheist, i.e.; one who denies the existence of GOD. Yet a more in depth look at the man he is describing, leads us to understand that he is actually recounting the state of the natural man who is in rebellion against GOD. For he goes on to describe the condition of all men by nature as they spring from the loins of their father, Adam. “They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” (Psa 14:1)

He further develops this truth, saying, “The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Psa 14:2-3) Paul quotes the same passage in his epistle to the Romans, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Rom 3:10-12) http://www.gracechapelobrien.net/gg_17_06.html

Man naturally doesnt seek the True God, we are by nature practical atheist when it comes to the True God.

 

[Derf]

New Calvinist Escape Room Has Participants Do Nothing While They Wait For Someone To Let Them Out

NASHVILLE, TN—Christian entertainment company 4HisGlory Amusements has announced an exciting new escape room experience based on Calvinist theology. Participants will be entirely unable to do anything to escape the room and instead must wait for an actor playing Jesus to unlock the door and let...

babylonbee.com

 

[beloved57]

All those whom the Father draws to His Son, the same God teaches them Jn 6:44-45

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

And the teaching of them will be successful and so they will hear and learn of Him.

This being taught is a spiritual teaching and its foretold from the prophets Isa 54:13

And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Its Gods Spiritual teaching 1 Cor 2:13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[beloved57]

Writer Moreno Dal Bello makes an excellent point:

By nature, that is, in his natural state, man is dead in sins, but God is alive. A saved man is not one who sought God, but one who was sought out by God and found. God searches for His sheep until He finds them (see Rom. 3:11 & Lk. 15:4,5 & Ezek. 34:11,12). Man is a sinner, God is the Saviour. Man is lost, God is the Seeker. Man is dead in sins, God is the one Who makes alive. By nature, man does not know he is lost and dead in sins, therefore, it is the Shepherd Who seeks out His sheep until He finds them. “…I was found of them that sought Me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me” (Rom. 10:20)

 

[Clete]

Writer Moreno Dal Bello makes an excellent point:

God has to search for people?

 

[Derf]

Writer Moreno Dal Bello makes an excellent point:

Since man is dead in sins, according to your doctrine, before God makes him alive enough to hear and respond to the gospel, why does God then need to harden some people whom He doesn’t desire to save?

Romans 9:18 (CSB) So then, he has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

How much does God have to harden a dead man to keep him from believing?

 

[marke]

All those whom the Father draws to His Son, the same God teaches them Jn 6:44-45

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

And the teaching of them will be successful and so they will hear and learn of Him.

This being taught is a spiritual teaching and its foretold from the prophets Isa 54:13

And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Its Gods Spiritual teaching 1 Cor 2:13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

You continue to ignore the fact that some who are taught of God and have clearly seen and understood God have afterward rejected God and gone to hell.

Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

These people who know the truth and reject it are not born fools,
they became fools.

The hearts of these people who have understood God and then rejected Him were not born totally dark,
their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[beloved57]

Apart from the first cause of God the Father, men come to Christ of their own carnal faith, their own carnal will, based on their own carnal works, their own carnal intellect, seeking for some carnal gain . The Father is the first cause of all of those which ever come[Spiritually] to the Son for Salvation. Otherwise man is so completely helpless, being dead in sins, alienated from the life of God, and enemies, haters of God in their hearts and minds that they neither cannot nor will not come to Christ. So, outside of the act of God’s election none from among fallen mankind will come to Christ and be saved.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rom 5:6

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Rom 1:30

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

 

[marke]

Apart from the first cause of God the Father, men come to Christ of their own carnal faith, their own carnal will, based on their own carnal works, their own carnal intellect, seeking for some carnal gain . The Father is the first cause of all of those which ever come[Spiritually] to the Son for Salvation. Otherwise man is so completely helpless, being dead in sins, alienated from the life of God, and enemies, haters of God in their hearts and minds that they neither cannot nor will not come to Christ. So, outside of the act of God’s election none from among fallen mankind will come to Christ and be saved.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Rom 5:6

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:30

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[beloved57]

Several reasons why men by nature dont seek after the True and Living God:

1st- because man has a enslaved will to sin, we are naturally servants of sin. Jesus told some men this Jn 8:34

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

This is man by nature Ecc 7:20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Therefore by nature we are slaves/servants to sin which keeps us from seeking the True and Living God.

2nd- By nature our affections are attached to darkness rather than Light and God is Light Jn 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. This is because before regeneration we are darkness Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Yet God is absolute light 1 Jn 1:5

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

3rd- Naturally We have a darkened Spiritual understanding Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

By Nature we dont understand God nor the things of God Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The word know here ginóskó means understand for instance Lk 18:34

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

So man naturally cannot understand God and the things of God !

These are ony a few reasons why man does not seek the True God, there are many others !

 

[marke]

Several reasons why men by nature dont seek after the True and Living God:

The Bible says men do not seek God and also says men do seek God. Calvinists do not believe the whole Bible, just select verses they like to misinterpret.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

1 Chronicles 22:19
Now set your heart and your soul to seek the Lord your God; arise therefore, and build ye the sanctuary of the Lord God, to bring the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and the holy vessels of God, into the house that is to be built to the name of the Lord.

2 Chronicles 11:16
And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers.

2 Chronicles 14:4
And commanded Judah to seek the Lord God of their fathers, and to do the law and the commandment.

1. 2 Chronicles 15:12
   And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord Godof their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;
   
2. 2 Chronicles 15:13
   That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

2 Chronicles 19:3
Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

2 Chronicles 34:3
For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

Ezra 8:22
For I was ashamed to require of the king a band of soldiers and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way: because we had spoken unto the king, saying, The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek him; but his power and his wrath is against all them that forsake him.

Psalm 10:4
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

Psalm 63:1
O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[beloved57]

The Bible says men do not seek God and also says men do seek God. Calvinists do not believe the whole Bible, just select verses they like to misinterpret.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

1 Chronicles 22:19
Now set your heart and your soul to seek the Lord your God; arise therefore, and build ye the sanctuary of the Lord God, to bring the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and the holy vessels of God, into the house that is to be built to the name of the Lord.

2 Chronicles 11:16
And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers.

2 Chronicles 14:4
And commanded Judah to seek the Lord God of their fathers, and to do the law and the commandment.

1. 2 Chronicles 15:12
   And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord Godof their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;
2. 2 Chronicles 15:13
   That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

2 Chronicles 19:3
Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

2 Chronicles 34:3
For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

Ezra 8:22
For I was ashamed to require of the king a band of soldiers and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way: because we had spoken unto the king, saying, The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek him; but his power and his wrath is against all them that forsake him.

Psalm 10:4
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

Psalm 63:1
O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Men naturally dont seek God. The Born Again Person does.

 

[marke]

Men naturally dont seek God. The Born Again Person does.

That assumption does not fit all the verses I posted for your benefit. God commands sinners to seek God and those who obey His command will find that when they seek God with all their hearts they will then find Him.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

 

[beloved57]

That assumption does not fit all the verses I posted for your benefit. God commands sinners to seek God and those who obey His command will find that when they seek God with all their hearts they will then find Him.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

See its man by nature that doesnt seek God, but after he is born anew, he has been given a new nature that seeks after God.

 

[marke]

See its man by nature that doesnt seek God, but after he is born anew, he has been given a new nature that seeks after God.

Calvinists say God did not create sinners with the ability to seek God because God created them to burn in hell, not get saved, with some exceptions chosen by God for His own secret reasons not related to the sinners He decides to spare from the lake of fire.

I do not agree with that because a proper understanding of the whole Bible will not allow such an interpretation. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and is not willing that any should refuse to come to Jesus for salvation.

 

[Clete]

Several reasons why men by nature dont seek after the True and Living God:

1st- because man has a enslaved will to sin, we are naturally servants of sin. Jesus told some men this Jn 8:34

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

This is man by nature Ecc 7:20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Therefore by nature we are slaves/servants to sin which keeps us from seeking the True and Living God.

2nd- By nature our affections are attached to darkness rather than Light and God is Light Jn 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. This is because before regeneration we are darkness Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Yet God is absolute light 1 Jn 1:5

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

3rd- Naturally We have a darkened Spiritual understanding Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

By Nature we dont understand God nor the things of God Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The word know here ginóskó means understand for instance Lk 18:34

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

So man naturally cannot understand God and the things of God !

These are ony a few reasons why man does not seek the True God, there are many others !

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

Note that their hearts didn't start off dark but "their foolish hearts were darkened" BECAUSE "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God"

B57 had no conception of how to respond even to the plain reading of the scripture that he pretends to believe.

 

[beloved57]

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

Note that their hearts didn't start off dark but "their foolish hearts were darkened" BECAUSE "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God"

B57 had no conception of how to respond even to the plain reading of the scripture that he pretends to believe.

Man by nature doesnt seek after God nor understand God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 1 agrees. It shows that man by nature is a Idolater.

 

[marke]

Man by nature doesnt seek after God nor understand God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 1 agrees. It shows that man by nature is a Idolater.

You focus on a handful of scriptures that you misinterpret to support your erroneous view of God and the Bible, but you ignore hundreds of other scriptures that do not support your erroneous view. Calvinists say God created sinners who cannot come to God and will not come to God, with few exceptions, because He intends to burn them in wrath in hell forever for refusing to come to God. That is nonsense.

You claim humans are by nature evil and will always be evil unless God decides to transform them according to His secret design that has nothing to do with human responses to Him. But when God created humans on earth He saw His creation and declared it to be good. Did God allow the devil to deceive Adam and plunge the entire human race into hopeless darkness forcing God to hate the same humans that He had once loved? Did Adam's sin take God by surprise? Did God plan on Adam sinning and plunging the entire human race into sin so God could demonstrate His power and glory by burning them alive in the lake of fire for His own pleasure?