Does God know the future?
- Thread starter intro2faith
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Yorzhik said:
When I said she can return any time she wants I meant anytime after she had left....I wasn't getting drawn into the time travel thing.
When using Einstein though we have to be careful. He didn't accept Quantum theory the results of which have since been proven time and time again and it is just this thinking that kicks in whenever 'time' is pushed to the extremities.
eccl3_6 said:
Further more....back to the sister analogy...what if the angel were to be told to pass on a revelation to the twins at the same time on their 69th birthday. Now he really has his work cut out. Convergence of time, different places, different times; Quantum!
godrulz said:
So you are saying He knows the probable future but not the actual future until certainty in reality? Isn't this putting limits on a limitless God? Why can't he see with absolute clarity whenever. When does his probable foresight become actual foresight? If His actual foresight is applied to what He has actually forseen wouldn't this be more accurrate than His probable foresight? This is interpolation of the ridiculous.
This must be how Galileo felt.......
I haven't been following this part of the thread so I hope this addresses the question.Yorzhik said:
Nothing I have ever read or heard at all about Einstien's theories allow for anyone to ever dialate time in such a way as to go back in time. I've heard some silly nonsense about if you interact in a particular way with the spacial distortions associated with black holes that you could some how arrive at your starting point before you left. But no one actually believes that you could really do that. It's all mathematical BS and has no application to the real world. There is just no way to make time go backward, even relativisticly speaking slowing time down yes but not reversing it and even that is assuming that Einstein's fourth dimention is actually time which I don't believe is possible to confirm.
Resting in Him,
Clete
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Basically yes that's what Open Theist believe. God knows what is knowable.eccl3_6 said:
What do you mean by limitless?
Can God sin?
Can God go to a place that doesn't exist?
Can God do the logically absurd?
Is a "no" answer to any of these questions an act of limting God? Of course it is not. God can do anything that He wants to do that is doable.
Because it is undoable, that'a why.
Why is it undoable?
Because we have free will.
The closer the event the more likely God knows the outcome but will any free will agent they are free to do or to do otherwise right up until the deed is done.
If you mean that what you've said here is rediculous I would agree. It doesn't even make any sense at all.
What is that supposed to mean?
Resting in Him,
Clete
Clete said:
Hey Clete,
Yeah I agree with you on the relativity thing. Time travel into the past has been suggested by antimatter particles but nothing that could be of any relevance to ourselves. A time machine just aint gonna happen.
Secondly to do with the limitless God thing, I'm gonna back off on this one because we're just not going to agree or reach any form of mutual enlightened compromise for either one of us. What I would say is that I did have a real problem with the 'probable foresight' and the 'actual foresight'. At what point do you suggest that God knows the actual future? By applying His 'known foresight' to the 'known future' would give Him a further insight into the 'probable future' making it 'known future'. What I'm desperately trying to say is the two things God sees as 'probable future' and 'known future' is in fact a contradiction because God would be able to interpolate probable into known.
God cannot sin, do logical absurdities etc. because it would go against his infintely perfect nature, not because it is impossible per se. We sin so sin is possible.
God being in time and not knowing the future would also go against his infinite perfection.
If God created our free will, how would that limit him? You are assuming you know the means in which he created our free will? He created limits to himself for doing that?
God being in time and not knowing the future would also go against his infinite perfection.
If God created our free will, how would that limit him? You are assuming you know the means in which he created our free will? He created limits to himself for doing that?
That's why I put sin in the list nancy. I wanted to have a list that included both thing which are doable and things which are not. God could not go to a place that doesn't exist even if He wanted to because to do it would be to not do it. It is a contradiction. I CANNOT be done, period.nancy said:
No it wouldn't. I've just explained why.
It would be impossible for us to love God is we could not freely choose not to. To love God is the very definition of what being a Christian means and it is therefore an indispensible principle of the faith. Therefore, if we do not have free will, Christianity is meaningless.
This question doesn't make sense to me but I can know that we have free will because God wants me to love Him which would not be possible if I didn't have a free will.
Resting in Him,
Clete
No one is saying that this is not POSSIBLE. God would have been perfectly capable of making a universe where everything in it was predetermined in advance. What I am saying is that such a universe would be incompatible with a God of love Who had created creatures who are able to love Him back. It is love that kills all closed view theistic belief systems.eccl3_6 said:
Resting in Him,
Clete
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He's not in time. Time is not something you can be in or out of. It is an idea not a thing with an independent existence. Time is sequence and duration. If events occur, then time is that which transpires between those events.nancy said:
Resting in Him,
Clete
eccl3_6 said:
It is incompatible because of what it means to love someone. You must choose to love. If you cannot choose you cannot love because making the choice is the very act of love itself. Thus if you do have the ability to do otherwise, love becomes meaningless. Thus free will is a necessary condition of love.
Resting in Him,
Clete
NO! NO! NO! NO!NO!
Time is a thing, thats the whole point. We find this difficult to understand because we rarely have it but from one perspective. Time isnt a thing that we use to divide between events. How do you get to different events if you have no time? More over time is proved to be a factor of physicallity. Just as gravity is married to mass and energy is mass and mass is energy. Time is quantifiable by relativity just as acceleration is quantifaible by an intial velocity and and a point velovity.
Time is just as real as the events that happen around it.
Time is a thing, thats the whole point. We find this difficult to understand because we rarely have it but from one perspective. Time isnt a thing that we use to divide between events. How do you get to different events if you have no time? More over time is proved to be a factor of physicallity. Just as gravity is married to mass and energy is mass and mass is energy. Time is quantifiable by relativity just as acceleration is quantifaible by an intial velocity and and a point velovity.
Time is just as real as the events that happen around it.