Z Man said:
I never meant to imply that you believed God was limited by time. I was merely making a point to Godrulz.
Fair enough
Your hesitation to declare yourself 'saved' worries me. To me, it shows that you lack the faith in the hope of Christ's promise that if we believe in Him, we shall be saved. Do you believe in Him? Then why doubt?
You shouldn't let it worry you. There are enough warnings in Gods guide about falling away and stumbling etc., IMHO. And also about certain things that can still effect us while in this mortal body. The armor of Christ protects you from without.. not from within. Or do you believe that from the moment you make the 'elect' you are now invulnerable completely to your own self? Christ will do what He can to keep you, but you STILL have free will, and STILL have the capability to sin. I don't happen to believe we are immune from ourselves, and even at the last minute can totally mess up our salvation. Christs promises are for what He can and will do for us, and not what we will do to ourselves.
It is also partially because the Bible doesn't ONLY talk about the elect.. it talks about others too:
Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
It seems to me that there are those who will believe they have it right, but don't. And much like who are the elect, God is silent here as to who these might be. Are you so sure that you have not been misled? As I said, I live in faith and hope.. not in absolutes.
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
It even seems to me that Paul here says to be patient and wait for 'election', and also talks about 'works' and 'faith'.. And by the way, to have an absolute about your salvation denies faith and hope. I don't have faith that gravity will keep me on the planet. I take it as fact, and forget it. Is that how being one of the Elect works?
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Why speak of faith and hope, if all that is needed is the simple revelation you say changed you and made you realise you are one of these 'elect'?
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Now, while I do not disagree with there being an 'elect', I disagree with the Calvanist view that they
know who is and who isn't, when I'm not even sure God knows for sure. And if you had any time (ironic huh
) to review some of what I have written before, you would see that I believe God both knows and does not know the Future, both at the same time! How clever is that! And when you see how I put it, you might understand how I can say that and not be contrary. Apologetics at work
As I say, there is enough warnngs in the overall picture the Bible gives me, to keep my own salvation to the limit of faith and hope, and not an absolute. If you don't see it that way, it doesn't make me right and you wrong, or visa versa. God and the Spirit reveals to each of us what we need as we need it.. and right now, I don't need such a pig headed pride in myself
IN Love and Peace
JCAtheist