Does 1 Timothy 2:11-14 justify the sceptic?

[Sonnet]

1 Timothy 2:11-14
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Paul's reasoning - that Eve was deceived rather than Adam - is baffling to me and, it would seem, rather embarrassing for (*some) Christ followers.

If these scriptures were the first an unbeliever were to read then, surely, they wouldn't engender or encourage faith would they?

* added Tuesday 22nd March.

 

[Sonnet]

Adam wasn't deceived?

 

[Sonnet]

If Adam wasn't deceived then what word adequately describes what occurred?

Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

 

[Sonnet]

Anyway - these scriptures do not facilitate faith in scripture for me - at least.

 

[Sonnet]

Nobody want to disabuse me of my possible misunderstanding of Paul's views on women?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Nobody want to disabuse me of my possible misunderstanding of Paul's views on women?

You should give 24 hours before complaining that there are no responses to your new thread.

 

[genuineoriginal]

1 Timothy 2:11-14
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Paul's reasoning - that Eve was deceived rather than Adam - is baffling to me and, it would seem, rather embarrassing for Christ followers.

If these scriptures were the first an unbeliever were to read then, surely, they wouldn't engender or encourage faith would they?

There seems to be two things you are asking about, one is the authority of men over women in the Bible, the other is Paul's statements about what happened in the Garden of Eden.

Paul mentioned a hierarchy that he believed was established by God.

1 Corinthians 11:3 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.​

If a woman was put in authority over a man, then it would violate that hierarchy.
It is not embarrassing to believe in the hierarchy established God, since the hierarchy is reinforced by many verses in the Bible (see Numbers 30).

Adam wasn't deceived?

Eve was deceived, but Adam was not.

Adam heard the commandment directly from God.

Genesis 2:17 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.​

Eve heard the commandment from Adam, but what Adam said contained an extra clause that God had not stated.

Genesis 3:3 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.​

The serpent took advantage of this addition to the commandment, and deceived Eve, presumably by showing her that the fruit could be touched without dying.
So, Eve, being deceived, ate of the fruit first, then gave it to Adam and he ate as well.

Genesis 3:6 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.​

From what Paul said, we can assume the following:
When Eve ate, she did it thinking that what she had been told about dying after eating it was mistaken, since she touched it and did not die.
When Adam ate, he did it knowing full well what God had told to him, and ate it thinking both he and Eve would die.

 

[patrick jane]

1 Timothy 2:11-14
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Paul's reasoning - that Eve was deceived rather than Adam - is baffling to me and, it would seem, rather embarrassing for Christ followers.

If these scriptures were the first an unbeliever were to read then, surely, they wouldn't engender or encourage faith would they?

It's ridiculous to think that those would be the first scriptures heard or read by a new believer.

 

[patrick jane]

It's spelled skeptic, with a k

 

[patrick jane]

Nobody want to disabuse me of my possible misunderstanding of Paul's views on women?

That was the early formation of Christianity, times and customs were much different back then. They had no Susan B Anthony

 

[Sonnet]

You should give 24 hours before complaining that there are no responses to your new thread.

Wasn't actually complaining.

 

[Sonnet]

It's spelled skeptic, with a k

In the UK it's with a 'c'.

 

[Sonnet]

It's ridiculous to think that those would be the first scriptures heard or read by a new believer.

But nonetheless possible.

 

[Sonnet]

That was the early formation of Christianity, times and customs were much different back then. They had no Susan B Anthony

Paul does not make it a custom - and explicitly says it was because she was deceived whilst Adam wasn't.

 

[Sonnet]

There seems to be two things you are asking about, one is the authority of men over women in the Bible, the other is Paul's statements about what happened in the Garden of Eden.

Paul mentioned a hierarchy that he believed was established by God.

1 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


If a woman was put in authority over a man, then it would violate that hierarchy.
It is not embarrassing to believe in the hierarchy established God, since the hierarchy is reinforced by many verses in the Bible (see Numbers 30).

Okay - but does teaching constitute having authority over someone? Paul goes further and states that women should be quiet.

1 Cor. 14:34-35
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

This silence because of the fact that Eve was deceived and came after man?

 

[exminister]

1 Timothy 2:11-14
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Paul's reasoning - that Eve was deceived rather than Adam - is baffling to me and, it would seem, rather embarrassing for Christ followers.

If these scriptures were the first an unbeliever were to read then, surely, they wouldn't engender or encourage faith would they?

It's not a main theme in the Bible.

There were 7 women prophets who would have reason to be less submissive. One was a judge of Israel itself.

http://stronginfaith.org/article.php?page=90

 

[Sonnet]

Eve was deceived, but Adam was not.

Adam heard the commandment directly from God.

Genesis 2:17 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.​

Eve heard the commandment from Adam, but what Adam said contained an extra clause that God had not stated.

Genesis 3:3 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.​

The serpent took advantage of this addition to the commandment, and deceived Eve, presumably by showing her that the fruit could be touched without dying.
So, Eve, being deceived, ate of the fruit first, then gave it to Adam and he ate as well.

Genesis 3:6 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.​

From what Paul said, we can assume the following:
When Eve ate, she did it thinking that what she had been told about dying after eating it was mistaken, since she touched it and did not die.
When Adam ate, he did it knowing full well what God had told to him, and ate it thinking both he and Eve would die.

It does not say that Adam told Eve.
There isn't a suggestion that the snake used the addition to deceive her. The snake just tells her that she will not die if she eats it.
Whether Adam was deceived or not, he went against God just as Eve did. And, apparently, the sanction only falls upon her sex.

 

[Nick M]

Paul's reasoning - that Eve was deceived rather than Adam - is baffling to me and

Maybe you have an aptitude problem.

it would seem, rather embarrassing for Christ followers.

Nothing in the Bible is embarrassing to those in Christ.

If these scriptures were the first an unbeliever were to read then, surely, they wouldn't engender or encourage faith would they?

And how would they open to some random page and hit that one? The person preaching the good news teaches that all are condemned because of Adam, but life is offered to all because the Lord Jesus Christ satisfied the punishment for sin.

 

[Sonnet]

It's not a main theme in the Bible.

There were 7 women prophets who would have reason to be less submissive. One was a judge of Israel itself.

http://stronginfaith.org/article.php?page=90

Good point. So, despite this fact, you have no qualms about Paul?

 

[Sonnet]

Maybe you have an aptitude problem.



Nothing in the Bible is embarrassing to those in Christ.



And how would they open to some random page and hit that one? The person preaching the good news teaches that all are condemned because of Adam, but life is offered to all because the Lord Jesus Christ satisfied the punishment for sin.

If you go to church - do the women keep silent? If not then you wouldn't, I presume, be embarrassed to cite this scripture to them?