ECT Do You Confess Your Sins?

[Jerry Shugart]

Where is the word sin in that quote?

What do you think is the "result" of sin:

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).​

And if you know what the word "filthy" means you also know that filthy things defile a person.

So do you think that any sin which a Christian commits defile that person?

 

[glorydaz]

Apparently Jerry thinks that not sinning makes one holy :dizzy:

This is an ongoing discussion which I've had with Jerry for quite some time.

God has a better way than Jerry reckons, and we must reckon it to be so.
It's included in the gift of Grace, which we access by Faith.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.​

 

[glorydaz]

What do you think is the "result" of sin:

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).​

And if you know what the word "filthy" means you also know that filthy things defile a person.

So do you think that any sin which a Christian commits defile that person?

Believers have been delivered from the law, Jerry.

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Believers have been delivered from the law, Jerry.

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?​

So?

Do you really not know that Christian's sins in their "walk" have consequences?

"By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed" (2 Cor.6:9).​

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31).​

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Rev.3:19).​

"And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth" (Heb.12:5-6).​

You need to learn the difference between the Christian's "position in Christ" and his "walk."

They are two different things so in order to rightly divide it is absolutely necessary to distinguish between the two.

 

[Right Divider]

It appears that Jerry believes that a believer should focus on their sins instead of on the One that forgave them.

For Jerry it is a continuing cycle of identifying your sins (that make you "unholy") and then confessing them (which makes you "holy" again?), repeat, repeat, repeat.....

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It appears that Jerry believes that a believer should focus on their sins instead of on the One that forgave them.

I believe what Paul said here and obviously Right Divider does not:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).

Right Divider doesn't seem to realize that if Christians don't judge themselves or confess their sins to themselves and instead continue to do the same sins then they will be chastened by the LORD:

"By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed" (2 Cor.6:9).​

Right Divider is so uninformed that he doesn't even realize that the LORD chastens those who He loves, as witnessed by His following words:

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Rev.3:19).​

For Jerry it is a continuing cycle of identifying your sins (that make you "unholy") and then confessing them (which makes you "holy" again?), repeat, repeat, repeat.....

Right Divider is so uninformed that he is completely unaware of the fact that any sins which a Christian commits results in him being filthy and therefore unholy in his "walk":

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).​

Right Divider doesn't want to confess his sin so that those sins will be taken away and he will be cleansed from all unrighteousness because he hasn't yet learned to distinguish between a Christians "position" in Christ and his "walk"!

 

[Faither]

Jerry , how would you address Rom. 7:14-21 in response to your question about sin ?

Rom. 7:14-21 gives us a perfect picture of santificación , ( Which means separation ) of which Paul states it's not him doing it anymore .

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry , how would you address Rom. 7:14-21 in response to your question about sin ?

Rom. 7:14-21 gives us a perfect picture of santificación , ( Which means separation ) of which Paul states it's not him doing it anymore .

Paul was saying that sin is not a part of what he was at the most inward level of his being, being born of God and therefore a son of God. The child partakes in the nature of His Parent and his sin does not stem from the believer's regenerate nature. In other words, sin cannot spring from what a Christian truly is at the level of his regenerate being.

As long as Paul kept that in his mind then he wouldn't sin but if he started walking according the the flesh he would sin:

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Ro.7:25).​

 

[Right Divider]

I believe what Paul said here and obviously Right Divider does not:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).

Right Divider doesn't seem to realize that if Christians don't judge themselves or confess their sins to themselves and instead continue to do the same sins then they will be chastened by the LORD:

"By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed" (2 Cor.6:9).​

Cool...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "confess" is "to confess by way of admitting oneself guilty of what one is accused of, the result of inward conviction. 1 Jo.1:9" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of new Testament Words).

When a Christian confesses his sin he is in effect admitting to himself that he is guilty of sinning. And that is the same exact thing of which Paul speaks of here:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).​

 

[Right Divider]

One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "confess" is "to confess by way of admitting oneself guilty of what one is accused of, the result of inward conviction." (Vine's Expository Dictionary of new Testament Words).

When a Christian confesses his sin he is in effect admitting to himself that he is guilty of sinning. And that is the same exact thing of which Paul speaks of here:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).​

So you think that a Christian that is saved by grace through faith should spend a lot of time analyzing their own sins?

That is not how a Christian grows in Christ.

(Php 4:8 KJV) Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.​

 

[Faither]

Paul was saying that sin is not a part of what he was at the most inward level of his being, being born of God and therefore a son of God. The child partakes in the nature of His Parent and his sin does not stem from the believer's regenerate nature. In other words, sin cannot spring from what a Christian truly is at the level of his regenerate being.

As long as Paul kept that in his mind then he wouldn't sin but if he started walking according the the flesh he would sin:

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Ro.7:25).​

So Paul is only Sanctified or separated from his sinful nature if he doesn't sin ?

That kind of a contradiction .

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So Paul is only Sanctified or separated from his sinful nature if he doesn't sin ?

That kind of a contradiction .

It is necessary to distinguish from a Christian's position "in Christ" and his "walk."

In regard to being "in Christ" a Christian is "perfected forever" (Heb.10:10,14) but in order to remain holy in his "walk" or "service" for the Lord he must present his body a living sacrifice:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Ro.12:1).​

This speaks about what a person must do in order to be acceptable unto the LORD in regard to his "walk." And once a person sins he becomes defiled and therefore unholy in regard to his "walk" but the Apostle John tells Christian's how they can be restored back to being holy here:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to remit us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So you think that a Christian that is saved by grace through faith should spend a lot of time analyzing their own sins?

So you must think that Paul was in error when Paul told the Christian's to judge themselves?

 

[Right Divider]

So you must think that Paul was in error when Paul told the Christian's to judge themselves?

No, I don't think that.

But I also don't think that focusing on your sin is going make you more righteous either.

That you continue to use John as one of your "key verses" shows your lack of understanding of HIS (John's) commission.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That you continue to use John as one of your "key verses" shows your lack of understanding of HIS (John's) commission.

John and Peter wrote their epistles during the time when the present dispensation was in force and received by Christians living in the present dispensation. So common sense dictates that the doctrine found in those epistles is for the present dispensation. We can see exactly what gospel Peter was preaching and it is not the gospel of the kingdom:

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).​

Do you really believe that Peter was preaching the gospel of the kingdom there? If you do then it is certain you know nothing about Paul's gospel which He referred to as "the preaching of the Cross."

Do you never even check for yourself to see if what you are being taught is correct? Evidently not!

 

[Right Divider]

John and Peter wrote their epistles during the time when the present dispensation was in force and received by Christians living in the present dispensation. So common sense dictates that the doctrine found in those epistles is for the present dispensation. We can see exactly what gospel Peter was preaching and it is not the gospel of the kingdom:

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).​

Do you really believe that Peter was preaching the gospel of the kingdom there? If you do then it is certain you know nothing about Paul's gospel which He referred to as "the preaching of the Cross."

Do you never even check for yourself to see if what you are being taught is correct? Evidently not!

The highlighted text shows your total confusion.

Peter and John were NOT given the SAME dispensation as Paul.

A dispensation is NOT a period of time.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A dispensation is NOT a period of time.

Who ever said a dispensation is a period of time? I never did but it covers a period of time. Do you not even know that the Hebrew epistles were written during the present dispensation? And they were received by Christians living in the present dispensation.

According to your mistaken ideas they were for a future dispensation!

If that were the case then the writers of those epistles would have made that known. But I searched and searched those epistles and I did not find even one instance where anyone was told that what is being said is not for the present dispensation but instead for a future one.

Why do we not read any of those authors saying that the doctrine found in those epistles in not for this dispensation but instead for a future one? Can you answer that?

And please provide the evidence which you think proves that these epistles will find their fulfillment in a future dispensation.

 

[Right Divider]

Who ever said a dispensation is a period of time? I never did but it covers a period of time. Do you not even know that the Hebrew epistles were written during the present dispensation? And they were received by Christians living in the present dispensation.

Once AGAIN, it matters NOT when the epistles are written... it is their CONTENT that matters and the CONTENT of Peter and John is NOT content directed at the body of Christ, which is uniquely Pauline.

That is one of the primary reasons that Peter, John and James agreed to separate their ministry's in Galatians 2

According to your mistaken ideas they were for a future dispensation!

Indeed they are! When the dispensation given to Paul comes to its conclusion, the dispensation given to the twelve will resume and find its completion.

If that were the case then the writers of those epistles would have made that known. But I searched and searched those epistles and I did not find even one instance where anyone was told that what is being said is not for the present dispensation but instead for a future one.

That's because you are blinded by your own interpretation of them.

Why do we not read any of those authors saying that the doctrine found in those epistles in not for this dispensation but instead for a future one? Can you answer that?

The doctrines are SO clear and SO distinct from that of the Pauline epistles that even a child can understand the difference, but not you or the various factions of Churchianity.

And please provide the evidence which you think proves that these epistles will find their fulfillment in a future dispensation.

It won't do any good. You are too fixated on your false interpretation.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Once AGAIN, it matters NOT when the epistles are written... it is their CONTENT that matters and the CONTENT of Peter and John is NOT content directed at the body of Christ, which is uniquely Pauline.

Let's look at the content found in John's epistle about what will happen when the Lord Jesus appears:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

Those who received John's epistles were taught that when the Lord appears they will see Him--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

So John was telling them that when the Lord Jesus appears living saints will put on bodies just like the Lord Jesus' glorious body. What will happen then was a mystery truth which will only happen to those in the Body of Christ:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor.15:51-52).​

You are confused because you haven't yet learned to rightly divide between "prophecy" and "mystery."