Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
It is but it's only orthogonally adding to it, iow it's not changing your conditions at all.
I would say that even in the hypotheticals you just set out, the choice is still up to the man.
Do you believe in predestination ?
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Maybe. Mint chocolate chip ain't half bad though.
Maybe. Mint chocolate chip ain't half bad though.
Reported.
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Arthur Brain
Well-known member
This kind of argument ultimately goes around in circles and unfortunately people still conflate foreknowledge with predestination and an undoing of free will anyway. God could know what you're going to do before you do it be it choosing an ice cream flavour or reading a book or whatever without choice in any given matter being impacted on in any way. Still gonna be a disconnect for some...
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What question? I was responding to Idolater not you.
Darwinists will do anything to avoid the question.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Whether or not God foreknows what we will do in the future, we have real free will. It is just also entirely possible for God to foreknow what we will do, with our real free will being fully preserved. Either way, we still have real free will.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Oh, is everyone suddenly obligated to respond to a question of yours when they're responding to someone else and you're not even part of the equation? If you've got a question then just ask the thing if you want an answer that much. Chances are my response to Idolater took care of it already...
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
This I agree with. Foreknowledge of future events from our perspective doesn't negate choice.
I disagree. If everything is known, we have no choice about what we will do.
Exhaustive foreknowledge and human wills are mutually exclusive.
My ice cream thought experiment shows this.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I made orthogonal additions to your thought experiment, meaning your thought experiment remained entirely intact. And I showed that while you retain free will, that it is possible for God to know exactly what you're going to do. So therefore foreknowledge and free will are not mutually exclusive.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Of course they aren't and your 'ice cream' stuff was just silly. You'll have made an abundance of choices through this day alone and God knowing what you were going to do didn't impact on any of them. Foreknowledge doesn't equal determinism in itself and at any given point you might have a choice between a whole range of ice cream flavours without God 'telling' you which one you're gonna pick.
If my thought experiment is intact, it shows mutual exclusivity.
Your additions are, to be blunt, a distraction.
Darwinists will do anything to avoid answering the question.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
It doesn't show any such thing. In the last few seconds you've made a choice to respond to a post on here. If God knew in advance that you were going to do that does that mean you had no will in the matter and were predetermined to do it? Of course not.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Ask your question and I'll answer it or continue with your ridiculous Darwinist nonsense, your 'choice'.
Of course.
A simple thought experiment exposes the mutual exclusivity. God tells me exactly what I will post. Can I do otherwise?
Darwinists will do anything to avoid the question.