It is those six things the Lord mentions in Luke 12:42.
ECT Dispensationalism Defined
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It is those six things the Lord mentions in Luke 12:42.
Got your ark built, yet?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is correct. But some people refuse to even acknowledge that dispensations do exist in the Bible, calling them "PURPORTED dispensations."
When the word "dispensation" is used the reference is in regard what the LORD "dispensed" to men. And the English word "dispensation" is translated from the Greek word oikonomia, and that word means "the management of a householdor of household affairs; specifically the management, oversight, administration, of other’s property; the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship" (Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon).
So down through history the LORD has given to men certain stewardships or dispensations. Anyone who speaks of "PURPORTED dispensations" is in ignorance about these things and desires to remain in ignorance.
Hi , and when did God INSPIRE John Nelson Darby to write about Dispensationalism as He did with Paul in Col 1:25-27 some 2000 years AGO !!:rotfl::rotfl:
DAN P
Are the following dispensations real or just.....'purported'?
Eph_1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph_3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Col_1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
No they are not, they all are from the Greek word οἰκονομία (oikonomia), and connote in that order, PLAN, and STEWARDSHIP x 2
So yes I say purported. Maybe you should study the Greek and MODERN English translations?
whitestone
Well-known member
well,,,pinpoint the different dispensations as they apply to who,,,
after the flood Shen Ham and Japeth entered an covenant with God,Ham went one way Japeth another and Shem another,but all of their tribes(children) were bound to obey the agreement.
Years later God made an covenant with Abraham,,,
So then there was(before the flood),,,
(1)disp./innocence/Eden
(2) disp./after being cast out of Eden(never the less a different agreement between mankind and God).
(3) covenant after the flood made with Shem,Ham,Japeth
this continued until the covenant made with Abraham(Shem tribe),so in summery,,,
(1) Ham's tribe is still bound to the covenant(Genesis 9 KJV)
(2) Japeth's tribe is still bound to the covenant given in (Genesis 9 KJV)
but lookie here,,,
(3)Abrahams children(Shem's tribe) in addition(?) to the covenant in Gen 9 is bound to another agreement(Genesis 12-17),,,and then as we know again Abrahams children(Hebrews) were again given the law through Moses.
So Ham and Japeths children are still in "third dispensation"(back then),,,and since Abraham is only one of Shem's many children some of Shem's children were still bound to the agreement in Genesis 9 but Abraham's children are bound in addition to Genesis 9,the convent made with Abraham(promise/circumcision) and the law given through Moses.
So the Hebrews are in the 5th dispensation,,,but notice Rue,Paleg,Nahor ect. although they are all descendents of Shem are not recipients of the agreements made with Abraham's seed/children so they all are also in the 3rd disp. the same as Ham and Japeth's tribes.
Then there are the other children of Abraham (Ishmael,Zimran,Jokshan,Medan,Median,Ishbak and Shuah),,,all of these are bound to the agreement made with Abraham (promise/circumcision) "but not the law of Moses",so they are in their 4th disp.,,,
In addition there are Issac's son Esau's tribe who at that time are also bound to the agreement of the 4th disp.(to them) but were not carried into captivity in Egypt, so hence did not partake of the passover in Egypt nor receive the law of Moses as a covenant(see Deut.2),that is the whole while they were in Seir. See also Lot's tribe who is in Ar during the captivity during their 3rd disp.of times.
As the times continued and progressed as such until the death burial and Resurrection of Christ all continued in the agreements between them and God in there own dispensation's,some in the 3rd,some the 4th,some the 5th dispensation,,,,BUT ALL OF MANKIND,WHOMSOEVER'S TRIBE THEY WERE FROM,AND REGARDLESS OF WHICH DISPENSATION THEY (WERE) IN,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"ARE (NOW) BROUGHT INTO AND ARE BOUND INTO THE DISPENSATION OF GRACE",,,
As for the necessity of this strange approach of dispensations,or whether they mean nothing here is the approach to the matter. Are you a descendent of Esau? And since you were not carried into captivity in Egypt then how much sense would it make for you to teach your children that gr.gr.gr.ect. granddaddy Esau painted lambs blood on his doorpost and feed them bitter herbs and spices? If again you were descendents of Japeth or Ham which dispensation are you in now and what will you teach your tribes children?
This is the dispensation of grace,wherein all of the tribes of the earth are now entered,whether it is your 4th,or 5th,or 6th disp., at the death burial and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth,the son of God,he that preeminence over all for he is the first of all (Colossians 1:15-20 KJV) has enjoined you who ever you are, to this very stewardship of the Gospel of grace until the last one comes who will die for their testimony of Jesus Christ.
And who will see the next dispensation,when those who remain are caught up? How long can it be said "while it is called today"? How can it be today before there is an kingdom of Israel on the earth? And seeing there is now after 1948 an kingdom called Israel again on earth how long until the last is beheaded for his testimony of Jesus Christ?
We focus so much energy in the explanation of the reckoning of the beginning of this dispensation,,,"I think 9,,hmm,well I'm a 28er,I'm 2,..." and then we all chime in with our stance.
There are to those who see these many dispensations certain questions that although it is understood that we are in this current dispensation,"the dispensation of the Gospel of Grace" we also understand that this stewardship will be accomplished and the last stewardship will begin. All the while we could be discussing the dispensations of time from the direction that everyone understands the current dispensation,,,and instead we are still convincing most of any dispensation.
after the flood Shen Ham and Japeth entered an covenant with God,Ham went one way Japeth another and Shem another,but all of their tribes(children) were bound to obey the agreement.
Years later God made an covenant with Abraham,,,
So then there was(before the flood),,,
(1)disp./innocence/Eden
(2) disp./after being cast out of Eden(never the less a different agreement between mankind and God).
(3) covenant after the flood made with Shem,Ham,Japeth
this continued until the covenant made with Abraham(Shem tribe),so in summery,,,
(1) Ham's tribe is still bound to the covenant(Genesis 9 KJV)
(2) Japeth's tribe is still bound to the covenant given in (Genesis 9 KJV)
but lookie here,,,
(3)Abrahams children(Shem's tribe) in addition(?) to the covenant in Gen 9 is bound to another agreement(Genesis 12-17),,,and then as we know again Abrahams children(Hebrews) were again given the law through Moses.
So Ham and Japeths children are still in "third dispensation"(back then),,,and since Abraham is only one of Shem's many children some of Shem's children were still bound to the agreement in Genesis 9 but Abraham's children are bound in addition to Genesis 9,the convent made with Abraham(promise/circumcision) and the law given through Moses.
So the Hebrews are in the 5th dispensation,,,but notice Rue,Paleg,Nahor ect. although they are all descendents of Shem are not recipients of the agreements made with Abraham's seed/children so they all are also in the 3rd disp. the same as Ham and Japeth's tribes.
Then there are the other children of Abraham (Ishmael,Zimran,Jokshan,Medan,Median,Ishbak and Shuah),,,all of these are bound to the agreement made with Abraham (promise/circumcision) "but not the law of Moses",so they are in their 4th disp.,,,
In addition there are Issac's son Esau's tribe who at that time are also bound to the agreement of the 4th disp.(to them) but were not carried into captivity in Egypt, so hence did not partake of the passover in Egypt nor receive the law of Moses as a covenant(see Deut.2),that is the whole while they were in Seir. See also Lot's tribe who is in Ar during the captivity during their 3rd disp.of times.
As the times continued and progressed as such until the death burial and Resurrection of Christ all continued in the agreements between them and God in there own dispensation's,some in the 3rd,some the 4th,some the 5th dispensation,,,,BUT ALL OF MANKIND,WHOMSOEVER'S TRIBE THEY WERE FROM,AND REGARDLESS OF WHICH DISPENSATION THEY (WERE) IN,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"ARE (NOW) BROUGHT INTO AND ARE BOUND INTO THE DISPENSATION OF GRACE",,,
As for the necessity of this strange approach of dispensations,or whether they mean nothing here is the approach to the matter. Are you a descendent of Esau? And since you were not carried into captivity in Egypt then how much sense would it make for you to teach your children that gr.gr.gr.ect. granddaddy Esau painted lambs blood on his doorpost and feed them bitter herbs and spices? If again you were descendents of Japeth or Ham which dispensation are you in now and what will you teach your tribes children?
This is the dispensation of grace,wherein all of the tribes of the earth are now entered,whether it is your 4th,or 5th,or 6th disp., at the death burial and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth,the son of God,he that preeminence over all for he is the first of all (Colossians 1:15-20 KJV) has enjoined you who ever you are, to this very stewardship of the Gospel of grace until the last one comes who will die for their testimony of Jesus Christ.
And who will see the next dispensation,when those who remain are caught up? How long can it be said "while it is called today"? How can it be today before there is an kingdom of Israel on the earth? And seeing there is now after 1948 an kingdom called Israel again on earth how long until the last is beheaded for his testimony of Jesus Christ?
We focus so much energy in the explanation of the reckoning of the beginning of this dispensation,,,"I think 9,,hmm,well I'm a 28er,I'm 2,..." and then we all chime in with our stance.
There are to those who see these many dispensations certain questions that although it is understood that we are in this current dispensation,"the dispensation of the Gospel of Grace" we also understand that this stewardship will be accomplished and the last stewardship will begin. All the while we could be discussing the dispensations of time from the direction that everyone understands the current dispensation,,,and instead we are still convincing most of any dispensation.
Wow, that does not explain much. It is clear as mud.
Luke 12
42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
A Stewardship or Dispensation involves six issues:
A Lord dispensing unto
A faithful and wise Steward a Stewardship
Over a Household on said Lord's behalf
To give or dispense unto Them Their Meat
In Due Season, Dispensation or Oiconomia.
Case in point, what the Apostle Paul wrote to those Body members at Ephesus as to that Stewardship, the Lord had given Him concerning a Household and its respective, Due Season Meat.
Ephesians 2:
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 3:
1. For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7. Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9. And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12. In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Case in point, what the writer of Hebrews wrote to them:
Hebrews 3:
1. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2. Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5. And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6. But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
A Stewardship or Dispensation involves six issues:
A Lord dispensing unto
A faithful and wise Steward a Stewardship
Over a Household on said Lord's behalf
To give or dispense unto Them Their Meat
In Due Season, Dispensation or Oiconomia.
ROFL!
Steko knows Greek.
Hee, hee! :mock: 'steko' is Greek!
"The Greek," argument, as does "the best translations" argument, as does "the writings of" this or that external writer all, as does "what this passage means" - isolated from the following - all take a back seat - to the following - way in the back - to Scripture's own, overall narrative.
I suspect far too many rely on those crutches they end up making of those four for their greater fascination; and their easily lending themselves to being applied towards supporting whatever view one ends up at out of a failure to invest greater time in Scripture's overall narrative.
My observation is that recurrent pattern - even within a same school of thought the differences between its own adherents will be the result of a mix of a departure from Scripture's own, overall narrative, and an overreliance on the above four.
I suspect far too many rely on those crutches they end up making of those four for their greater fascination; and their easily lending themselves to being applied towards supporting whatever view one ends up at out of a failure to invest greater time in Scripture's overall narrative.
My observation is that recurrent pattern - even within a same school of thought the differences between its own adherents will be the result of a mix of a departure from Scripture's own, overall narrative, and an overreliance on the above four.
Hah, once, I was invited to a home Bible study by a fellow Mid-Acts brother.
I get there and who is sitting there; his leg crossed like many Greeks do, when smoking, and or going on about one thing or another, but this one Greek attorney I knew from my dealings with that fascinating culture.
There he is; that dignified Greek pose their known for, his leg crossed, his Greek New Testament over his knee.
Next thing I know, he is teaching a Post-Trib this and that.
Some weeks back, he'd basically run over my Mid-Acts bud's study; turning it into his own Jerry-at-trick - why he alone was right, and all others are wrong.
I don't know the Greek. I do know some things about their beautiful culture; from my dealings with many of them.
That, and a decent grasp of Scripture's own, overall narrative in the KJV's Early Modern English, and this, in light of the Apostle Paul's own, overall narrative - the Mystery - more or less.
Of course, he and I end up nowhere.
One day we run into each other in one of those open air Greek cafes.
So we join one another. First thing out his mouth, in that majestic Greek way of his "You know, the New Testament was written in Greek; we would have a much better grasp of it than you Americans..."
Wonderful guy, but boy is he still caught up in Greece's glorious past - Alexander and all that, lol
Again, we got nowhere, so we dropped the subject and carried on about other things...
But, nope, the Greek, etc., are not the edge that Scripture's own, overall narrative in light of the Mystery... is...
Hah, think I'll look him up, see how's he'd been - thanks, Steko
There are pros and cons to bringing up the Greek.
It is just another language. It has no 'special power' over other languages.
I can read, write, and speak Greek. My primary studies were Koine Greek.
But here's the deal.....
As with any language, just knowing the meaning of the individual words is not enough. You have to be able to grasp the meaning of the whole thought (phrase or sentence).
For example:
Scripture says Jesus is the lamb of God.
If you go by the strict meaning of the word "lamb", then Jesus would be a
You can know what every single 'word' in a sentence means, but that does explain the 'thought' of what is being said.
The 'thought' behind Jesus being the lamb of God has nothing at all to do with Jesus being a
Long story short, just knowing the meaning of an individual word isn't enough, no matter what language you use.
Did you have a relevant point to make here about my response to Steko?
Another long winded post to say WHAT exactly?
Well, in the light of how it was used to try and support a position of 'dispensationalism', I think it was very pertinent, as the word is NOT dispensation in the Greek nor as the KJV mistranslated it. If I were to use other English translations, I'm sure some would react by saying they are inferior to the KJV. Just saving myself the inevitable obfuscative rhetoric by some.