Dinosaurs

[Stuu]

I'm sure he meant YEC but he's right; because of belief in a system in which God can create and who is in contest with an evil personage who wishes to destroy, there is no fatalism. The chaos of the world is meant to be overcome. God the creator wants goodness and wants it to prevail. Compare Hinduism in India, where there is fatalism and nothing can be done.

It's not a trivial mistake to confuse a 'creation scientist' with a YEC.

Your fantasy of supernatural friends and enemies that are capable of creating the whole universe but are unable to permanently resolve a conflict over the behaviours of one species of inhabitant of this small planet is hilarious but ultimately infantile.

Stuart

 

[6days]

Interestingly enough, Ken Ham has not studied either of those fields.

Haha... We were talking about creation scientists. You might be interested to find out they help improve our lives through improved technologies and medicine. That's what science is all about.

 

[6days]

But creating does not have to be from sheer nothing. Forming can be like forming woman. Or like forming man from dust. Or like forming earth from and through water.

Interplanner...

Why must you try disassemble what God says, and imagine it means something different?

In English we often use the words like 'form', 'make', 'create' *interchangeably.*

In Hebrew the similar words 'bara' and 'asah' are also used interchangeably.*

Gen. 1:21 God created (bara) fish and birds.
Gen.1: 25 God made (asah) the animals.
Or
V26 God is speaking of making man.
V27 God created man.

 

[6days]

And why is that? We share about 99.9% of genes with chimps. What sets chimps and humans apart from each other?

You need brush up on science... and study scripture.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You need brush up on science... and study scripture.

I am up to speed on both. Why wont you answer the question? It is a fairly simple question after all.

 

[Stuu]

Haha... We were talking about creation scientists. You might be interested to find out they help improve our lives through improved technologies and medicine. That's what science is all about.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=creation+science

Stuart

 

[Interplanner]

Interplanner...

Why must you try disassemble what God says, and imagine it means something different?

In English we often use the words like 'form', 'make', 'create' *interchangeably.*

In Hebrew the similar words 'bara' and 'asah' are also used interchangeably.*

Gen. 1:21 God created (bara) fish and birds.
Gen.1: 25 God made (asah) the animals.
Or
V26 God is speaking of making man.
V27 God created man.

No so about the dissembling. What is the human body equivalent of going from 'formless and void' to the earth we now have? That's why I said: he doesn't always create from sheer nothing. See October23's astronomical meaning of Heb 11:3. It does not mean sheer nothing in the astronomical sense, it means not visible, like hydrogen. This means the NT is not astronomically primitive as secular thinkers would like us to believe, about which you should be happy and collaborative.

You talk like you have corner on "God's Word" and you wont' go read Lewis, Schaeffer, Waltke, who are actual scholars and evangelists.

 

[User Name]

We share about 99.9% of genes with chimps.

Check out this thread: Are We Really 99% Chimp?

 

[Interplanner]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=creation+science

Stuart

If you're talking about the presupposition that we are in a closed system of natural causes and effects, I think you'll find from Brown that there have been a number of actions into the system. Brown is the retired military logistics researcher, and the 2nd on the search list that comes up. I remember him speaking about the Patagonia mountains with the convincing observation: "rocks don't look like that when they have moved a quarter inch per year to their present position. These have been slammed, crashed at at least 50 mph."

Now, scientists agree that there are meteor crashes etc that have drastically changed things. The face of the moon is splattered with fragments from elsewhere (earth). But the Bible mentions both the unusual and divine actions into the system; it does not say every unusual event is God doing something. That should provide an important clue: the Bible doesn't "need" to say everything unusual is divine. It is simply maintaining that the system is open to God's acting into it, because He is there and He is not silent.

That is the important difference in worldview, no matter where particular details of Brown or other Christians in science end up.

 

[Stuu]

If you're talking about the presupposition that we are in a closed system of natural causes and effects, I think you'll find from Brown that there have been a number of actions into the system. Brown is the retired military logistics researcher, and the 2nd on the search list that comes up. I remember him speaking about the Patagonia mountains with the convincing observation: "rocks don't look like that when they have moved a quarter inch per year to their present position. These have been slammed, crashed at at least 50 mph."

Now, scientists agree that there are meteor crashes etc that have drastically changed things. The face of the moon is splattered with fragments from elsewhere (earth). But the Bible mentions both the unusual and divine actions into the system; it does not say every unusual event is God doing something. That should provide an important clue: the Bible doesn't "need" to say everything unusual is divine. It is simply maintaining that the system is open to God's acting into it, because He is there and He is not silent.

That is the important difference in worldview, no matter where particular details of Brown or other Christians in science end up.

I would back up a great distance to this difference in worldview:

What the heck do you mean by 'god'? Where is your unambiguous evidence for such an hypothesis?

What does an ancient text written by zealous Jews have to do with reality?

And I'd add, who the hell is Brown?

Stuart

 

[CabinetMaker]

Check out this thread: Are We Really 99% Chimp?

That does not change the fact that humans and chimps share a significant number of genes. I Googled in and found that number is actually closer to 96%. Is it really on 4% different genes that is the only thing that separates us from chimps?

 

[6days]

They (monkeys, apes, lemurs) are not humans...They are not descendants of Adam and Eve.

First, the definition is not based on whether they are descended from Adam and Eve. Please read the definition again. Second, they are predecessors to Adam and Eve.

You already agreed God created humans distinct from the animals.*

Monkeys, racoon and elephants are predecessors to humans only in that God created them I'm what may have been an hour or two earlier.*

Silly question. But, perhaps evolutionists do have a God that looks like a chimp.

Is is a very serious question, what does God look like?

It's a serious question only if you have very little understanding of scripture.*

Genesis 1:27
New International Version
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

New Living Translation
So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

English Standard Version
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

So seriously. ... are you really understanding that to mean that God looks physically like both male and female?

If you agree that we were created distinct from animals. ( man from dust and woman from rib) then you agree humans are not descended from apelike creatures.

What makes us distinct from animals? Our physical form is very similar to every other mammal on Earth. We share a skeletal structure that only really varies in the sizes of the bones but all mammals have the same bones, similar organs, brains, eyes. What sets us apart from animals?

methinks you are trying to move the goalposts.

A Chevrolet has a lot of similarities to a Ford.... so what? *Are intelligent designers using similar plans that work well!*

Yes... we have similarities to animals...4 limbs, 2 eyes, 1 heart. There is One common Designer... there is no common ancestor.*

 

[6days]

[I Googled in and found that number is actually closer to 96]. Is it really on 4% different genes that is the only thing that separates us from chimps?

So... you weren't up to speed?

 

[CabinetMaker]

So... you weren't up to speed?

Well, I knew that we share over 95% of our genes with chimps but I do not regularly track the exact number. In any case, you can dodge around all you want. Why wont you address my actual question?

 

[ok doser]

So... you weren't up to speed?

musta been them monkey genes slowing him down

 

[CabinetMaker]

You already agreed God created humans distinct from the animals.*

Monkeys, racoon and elephants are predecessors to humans only in that God created them I'm what may have been an hour or two earlier.*

I asked you what makes us distinct from the animals. You haven't answered.

It's a serious question only if you have very little understanding of scripture.*

Genesis 1:27
New International Version
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

New Living Translation
So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

English Standard Version
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

So seriously. ... are you really understanding that to mean that God looks physically like both male and female?

God is neither male nor female. What is the image of God? What does He look like? What is He made of?

methinks you are trying to move the goalposts.

A Chevrolet has a lot of similarities to a Ford.... so what? *Are intelligent designers using similar plans that work well!*

Yes... we have similarities to animals...4 limbs, 2 eyes, 1 heart. There is One common Designer... there is no common ancestor.*

The goal posts have not moved. Given that our physical traits are shared with all mammals, what makes humans different?

 

[So many gays!]

You have a point about the evidence if you mean an earth as young as Usher's (the archbishop who thought the genealogy of Genesis was tight and contiguous). What 6days has not sorted out is the stage called 'formless and void' in which the window of time is wide open.

I believe the creative acts were six days. I find that when Moses bothers with details like evening and morning, he meant just that. But 'formless and void' is not being grasped by YECs even if they acknowledge that it is there and was the starting point. It is an expression that is about a complex backstory.

There are 5 features to earth when we first see it: formless, void, dark, deep waters, and the Spirit of God is not in it, but rather staying separate. All of these features, if researched through the rest of the OT, are indications of abandonment by God because of what was going on there. They are all things which are feared deeply in the Hebrew mind as indicators that God is not present, has not brought life and light. Jerusalem itself becomes 'formless and void' in its degeneration and destruction in the 8th century BC. Jer 4:23.

Turning to the NT, we find that the rebellious angels, Satan's pals, were sent off to 'blackest darkness' for confinement. This happened way before the formation of the earth we now have. It looks very much like our earth was one of these. In Job he moves freely throughout the world. In tangling with Christ, he claims authority to dispense with it as he wants. A lie, but lies are always based on some piece of truth, twisted.

Interplanner, I have reviewed many of your posts. While I may disagree with some of your conclusions, there is no doubt in my mind that your view of creation is about 10,000,000 times more likely than that of the YECs (i.e. 6days and Stripe). I think you have a fascinating take on much of the language in Genesis and how it can be reconciled with the real world as we know it. So though I may not agree with you that man was put onto this Earth as we are millions of years ago, I nevertheless respect your views and the effort you make to incorporate scientific reality into them

 

[6days]

What is the human body equivalent of going from 'formless and void' to the earth we now have?

Huh?

*That's why I said: he doesn't always create from sheer nothing. See October23's astronomical meaning of Heb 11:3. It does not mean sheer nothing in the astronomical sense, it means not visible, like hydrogen

You talk like you have corner on "God's Word" and you wont' go read Lewis, Schaeffer, Waltke, who are actual scholars and evangelists.

There have always been people who tried to insert evolutionary ideas into scripture. (Even Paul argued against them) There have always been Christians (some who are also scholars and evangelists) who defend what scripture plainly says.*

 

[So many gays!]

There have always been people who tried to insert evolutionary ideas into scripture. (Even Paul argued against them) There have always been Christians (some who are also scholars and evangelists) who defend what scripture plainly says.*

Please sir, tell us what features of evolution Paul had issue with 1800 years before evolution became a scientific theory?


Also if you would kindly answer the clear and plain question laid before you by Cabinet Maker, I'd be in your debt.

 

[Interplanner]

Huh?





There have always been people who tried to insert evolutionary ideas into scripture. (Even Paul argued against them) There have always been Christians (some who are also scholars and evangelists) who defend what scripture plainly says.*

If God formed this earth (the surface) from 'formless and void' and you were to apply that same way of doing things starting from hominids, it is reasonable to say there were things like them that we have now, but other capacities that are way past them.

You always think the only thing different from you is evolution. So everything that is different from how you think and say things is 'evolution.' You're wrong. The star cycle described by October23 is not evolution of organisms. It is just what happens over long periods to hydrogen mass, etc, as it becomes visible.