Arthur Brain
Well-known member
So, when you stub your toe then that resulting pain is Satan's fault?
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Did God Design All Of Creation To Suffer As A Result Of The 'Fall'?
- Thread starter Arthur Brain
- Start date
So, when you stub your toe then that resulting pain is Satan's fault?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
That's more an argument as to whether man deserves to suffer as oppose to creating it. Man did not create pain itself.
Oh, no, I thought you were still talking about the world, sorry. No , pain like that isn't cause by satan but the fallen world filled with pain, emotional, physical mental anguish, starvation, suffering, disease, birth abnormalities etc. All came with the bite of apple. I truly believe if you read some of the scriptures I posted previous, you would see some things that will help you understand the meaning and purpose of life and God from a spiritual standpoint. The Bible speaks of most all possible things, thoughts and feelings etc.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Right, so suffering itself isn't anything to do with satan then. I appreciate that you believe as you do although it raises questions as well. Why should a child be born with cancer or some debilitating condition because someone ate an apple from a tree years beforehand? With the scriptures you posted then do you believe that all pain will end, all tears and suffering?
Are you talking about pain and suffering or are you saying that man did not create pain but God has maybe caused man to suffer since man did not create his own suffering? Certainly God knows what suffering for us is. The question is if He caused it as the result or consequence of our sin. We speak of the fall. But is death suffering? What is spiritual death? Did it occur at the fall? What is the fall? Did it occur at all?
In the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die. It is not that this did not happen, it is how it did. Rather than saying this is the punishment but God did not do exactly as He said He would do such that His punishment was less than what He said it could or might be.
My understanding is that Adam and Eve may have died on the same day. As each other? Or when they sinned? What if they were different ages when they died? Certainly Adam was created first.
Such that we should go with the Bible, with what the Bible / Torah says. And only that. Stick with that.
Shalom.
Jacob
Yes I do believe that and so much more.
Daniel 4:33-37 - KJV - [FONT="]The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.[/FONT][FONT="]34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?[/FONT]
[FONT="]36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.[/FONT]
You've never even read it. :idunno:
I think he is.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
So you believe that ALL suffering will end?
yes, that's what the Bible says.
That's what Jesus followers are looking forward to.
At least that's what I believe what the prophets of the OT says.
Oh yes. God tells us so.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Well, he probably is when it suits but from a doctrinal perspective they're polls apart. Stipe's 'MAD' and intojoy is a Calvinist.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I have never seen them argueing or fighting. They seem to like each other. I read one of MADs threads and he was getting many thanks from MADs.
