LOL, i'm new, whats the deal with that?
Date of Christ's Crucifixion & Resurrection
- Thread starter Samie
- Start date
LOL, i'm new, whats the deal with that?
Letsargue
New member
(((((((( """DEAD TO THE WORLD""" )))))))))!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT ELSE?????????????????
(((( WATCH YOUR N-E-W-S ))))!!! --- ((( WATCH YOUR N-E-W-S )))
(((((((((((((((( W-A-T-C-H -- Y-O-U-R -- N--E--W--SSSSSSSSSS ))))))!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Say, - """How did T-H-A-T""" HAPPENNNNN???????
PAUL, DAVID -- 022116
I now pass the baton to you as the worlds worse communicator, LOL. I never thought I would get rid of this thing. LOL
Derf
Well-known member
One thing to mention that might or might not shed light on this topic: If Jesus is our passover lamb, and Jesus came to Jerusalem on either Sunday before passover or Monday before passover, and if the passover lamb was supposed to be in the house with the family from 10 Nissan until the passover was sacrificed on 14 Nissan, then assuming the "house" is Jerusalem or the temple, then the latest the true passover Lamb would be killed is 4 days from His entry into either Jerusalem (Sunday) or the temple (Sunday or Monday?). 4 plus Sunday is Thursday. 4 plus Monday is Friday.
My personal preference is Thursday.
My personal preference is Thursday.
Based on what?
Ask Mr. Religion
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No I do not know the fellow. I know of the "museum" housed in the Hampton Suites Hotel in Goodyear, AZ, but have not visited it.
AMR
Derf
Well-known member
<sigh>
Must I give scripture for a personal preference? Everybody's so up tight around here.
Here's some other possible reasons, besides the ones given in my post you responded to (some require others as precursors):
- It splits the difference between the Friday-ers and the Wednesday-ers. Call it peacemaking...
- I don't think "on the third day" is as descriptive of Friday late afternoon to Sunday before dawn as the Friday-ers like to think.
- Saturday is too early for Jesus to rise from the dead on the first day of the week, especially since the women were coming to the tomb or were already at the tomb when the angel descended to roll the stone away. I understand that Jesus wasn't there, and that He could have risen anytime between dusk and dawn, and maybe He just wanted to rest from the physical exertion of rising form the dead or eat or something, but what was He doing between dusk and dawn?
- This one is getting a little out there: If Jesus changed the sabbath to Sunday by His resurrection, as some suppose, and God had changed the beginning of the year to spring instead of fall (which I think changes the focus from death to life) with the institution of the passover (Ex 12:2), then it makes sense that the beginning of a day was also changed to morning instead of evening (changing focus from darkness to light).
- The wave offering was on Sunday, as other mentioned.
- If Sunday is the day He rose, then Wed is too early for His death--3 days and 4 nights at a minimum.
- And I guess I'll reiterate my reason from my previous post--that if Jesus was following the antetype of the passover lamb to a T, then He would have to be in the house with the family from 10 Nissan to 14 Nissan. Sunday, in my opinion, is the earliest day for 10 Nissan--when Jesus entered Jerusalem (triumphantly, I might add
). That would make Thursday the earliest 14 Nissan could be.
What AMR said about the confused calendar is a new idea to me. Not that I hadn't thought of something like that, but didn't know a background story to make it feasible. But I don't think it helps fit multiple sabbaths between Friday and Sunday--just not enough days for anything to be "multiple". It could allow for multiple sabbaths between Thursday and Sunday.
There. That's some of my meanderings amongst things I don't know well enough to meander.
Scriptures EXPICITLY say Jesus resurrected on a sabbath:
| Mark 16:9 Ἀναστὰς δὲ πρωὶ̈ πρώτῃ σαββάτου ἐφάνη πρῶτον Μαρίᾳ τῇ Μαγδαληνῇ, ἀφʼ ἧς ἐκβεβλήκει ἑπτὰ δαιμόνια. |
πρωὶ̈ πρώτῃ σαββάτου = early morning of the chief sabbath
In that paschal week, Sunday can NEVER be a sabbath, ceremonial or otherwise. So how could have He resurrected on a Sunday which can never be a sabbath that paschal week?
AMR said:
πρωὶ̈ πρώτῃ σαββάτου = early morning of the chief sabbath
Why chief sabbath? Because there was more than one sabbath that paschal week, a ceremonial sabbath and the weekly sabbath. Between a ceremonial sabbath which the Lord calls "your sabbath" and the weekly sabbath which is the Sabbath of the Lord, the chief sabbath is undoubtedly the weekly sabbath, Saturday.
The most reliable source of information as to how the genitive sabbatou was used in those days is the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament, directly translated from Hebrew by Hebrew scholars. In the Septuagint, all occurrences of sabbatou are from the Hebrew "shabbath" and NEVER from "shabua" which is Hebrew for "week". The Greek word for week is hebdomas, and not sabbaton, from which sabbatou derived.
In all resurrection verses, the English phrase "first day of the week" is from Greek phrases containing sabbaton.
μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων could also be translated into one of the sabbaths. Just like μία τῶν παιδισκῶν which was translated into one of the maids.
Smells of biased translation?
There is only one verse in the Bible that EXPLICITLY say when Jesus resurrected.
| Mark 16:9 Ἀναστὰς δὲ πρωὶ̈ πρώτῃ σαββάτου ἐφάνη πρῶτον Μαρίᾳ τῇ Μαγδαληνῇ, ἀφʼ ἧς ἐκβεβλήκει ἑπτὰ δαιμόνια. |
πρωὶ̈ πρώτῃ σαββάτου = early morning of the chief sabbath
Why chief sabbath? Because there was more than one sabbath that paschal week, a ceremonial sabbath and the weekly sabbath. Between a ceremonial sabbath which the Lord calls "your sabbath" and the weekly sabbath which is the Sabbath of the Lord, the chief sabbath is undoubtedly the weekly sabbath, Saturday.
The most reliable source of information as to how the genitive sabbatou was used in those days is the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament, directly translated from Hebrew by Hebrew scholars. In the Septuagint, all occurrences of sabbatou are from the Hebrew "shabbath" and NEVER from "shabua" which is Hebrew for "week". The Greek word for week is hebdomas, and not sabbaton, from which sabbatou derived.
In all resurrection verses, the English phrase "first day of the week" is from Greek phrases containing sabbaton.
| Matt 28:1 μίαν σαββάτων; Mark 16:2 μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων Mark 16:9 πρωὶ̈ πρώτῃ σαββάτου Luke 24:1 μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων John 20:1 μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων John 20:19 μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων |
μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων could also be translated into one of the sabbaths. Just like μία τῶν παιδισκῶν which was translated into one of the maids.
Smells of biased translation?
Nope, I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt that you had a basis for believing a Thursday crucifixion.
Some people on TOL are open to discussion.
And the wave sheaf was presented on the day after the Sabbath.
And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD to be accepted for you, on the morrow after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. (Leviticus 23:11 KJV)
What is the significance of the wave sheaf?
And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the Sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering, seven Sabbaths shall be complete, even unto the morrow after the seventh Sabbath shall ye number fifty days... (Leviticus 23:15-16 KJV)
The wave sheaf presentation on the first day of the week begins the count to Pentecost.
Jesus was our wave sheaf.
Can sabbaton mean week?
Strong's Dictionary says this:
sabbaton
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.
achduke
Active member
One thing I assumed in the past was that Christ rose on Sunday because he is the first fruits which happens on the day after the Sabbath. However before you can wave the sheaf you need to harvest(raise) the sheaf.
Letsargue
New member
((( KEEP Your Cursed Phony -- "B-A-T-O-N"!!!!!!
There's NO Room For Phony Garbage Like That IN MY CHRIST!! -- Y-O-U Phony D-A-D-D-Y, Of Your ""S-a-t-a-n-i-c"" G-O-O-O-D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(( WATCH Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!!!
PAUL, DAVID -- 022216
And the Jews did not harvest on the Sabbath, but Sunday was a work day.
Derf
Well-known member
Letsargue
New member
((((( Galatians 6:14 KJV ))))) -- 14- "But God Forbid that I should Glory, Save /// ( Except ) in the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom the ((( World is "Crucified" Unto ME ))), (((((( AND I Unto the World ))))))"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --//---
(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!
PAUL, DAVID -- 022316
Scriptures please that Jesus was our wave sheaf.
Dictionary theology? I prefer biblical theology.
In the Greek Old Testament which was translated from Hebrew Scriptures by Hebrew scholars, all occurrences of the genitive sabbatou were all from shabbath, and never from shabua which is Hebrew for week. Mark EXPLICITLY says Jesus resurrected on a sabbath. And Sunday, that paschal week, cannot be a sabbath.
genuineoriginal
New member
Your timeline is based on modern definitions of the English words and phrases contained in the Gospels and has no relationship with the historical account.
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On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathaea had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord's day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord's Day contains the resurrection.
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
Chapter IX.-Reference to the History of Christ.
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Ignatius was born shortly after the crucifixion and was taught about Jesus by the Apostle John, so his account is very reliable.On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathaea had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord's day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord's Day contains the resurrection.
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
Chapter IX.-Reference to the History of Christ.
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Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Greek: Ἰγνάτιος Ἀντιοχείας, Ignátios Antiokheías) (c.35 or 50 – 98 to c.108), also known as Ignatius Theophorus (Ιγνάτιος ὁ Θεοφόρος, Ignátios ho Theophóros, lit. "the God-bearing"), Ignatius Nurono (lit. "The fire-bearer") was an Apostolic Father, student of the Apostle John, and the third bishop of Antioch.
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Ignatius of Antioch (Ancient Greek: Ἰγνάτιος Ἀντιοχείας, Ignátios Antiokheías) (c.35 or 50 – 98 to c.108), also known as Ignatius Theophorus (Ιγνάτιος ὁ Θεοφόρος, Ignátios ho Theophóros, lit. "the God-bearing"), Ignatius Nurono (lit. "The fire-bearer") was an Apostolic Father, student of the Apostle John, and the third bishop of Antioch.
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At least I could make out what you said this time. I thought maybe your cat ran across your keyboard.LOL