Criminal Prosecution For Treason

[Jerry Shugart]

"Following the release of a four-page memo detailing rampant FISA warrant abuse by the FBI and DOJ, Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ) announced that he will seek the criminal prosecution of FBI and DOJ officials for the "full throated adoption of this illegal misconduct and abuse of FISA by James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Sally Yates and Rod Rosenstein" who Gosar called "traitors to our nation."

The letter reads in part:

The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence memorandum on the FBI abuse of FISA warrants and targeting a sitting President is not just evidence of incompetence but clear and convincing evidence of treason....

I will be leading a letter to the Attorney General seeking criminal prosecution against these traitors to our nation."​

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ution-fbi-doj-officials-full-throated-illegal​

 

[rexlunae]

Treason? I'd laugh if it weren't such a grave allegation coming from a member of Congress.

The Framers of our Constitution were so anxious about the misuse of the charge of treason that they very carefully ensured that almost nothing qualifies. Specifically, it requires that treason "shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort". There's nothing even remotely like that even in the Nunes memo.

 

[THall]

What there is in the memo is clear evidence of 'userpation of power', something our founding fathers warned about repeatedly. What is in the memo is:

1. Deprivation of rights under the color of law (10 years in prison)

2. Sedition against a duly elected government. (Death)

3. Misleading 4 FISA court judges (loss of license and contempt and perjury charges)

4. Conspiracy to commit election fraud in a national election

 

[rexlunae]

What there is in the memo is clear evidence of 'userpation of power', something our founding fathers warned about repeatedly. What is in the memo is:

1. Deprivation of rights under the color of law (10 years in prison)

2. Sedition against a duly elected government. (Death)

3. Misleading 4 FISA court judges (loss of license and contempt and perjury charges)

4. Conspiracy to commit election fraud in a national election

Oh good grief.

 

[rexlunae]

Given that the first FISA warrant for Carter Page was issued in 2014, 2 years before the Steele Dossier was produced (2016), just how could it have been used to mislead 4 FISA court judges?

Outrage is a Pavlovian response for your average Fox News viewer. They don't get outraged so much because of the substance of anything, but because the hosts on the various shows speak in a triggering tone, which leads them to spew out ill-informed and misdirected outrage. That's why they've suggested that this memo reveals five different crimes in a few posts.

 

[THall]

how could it have been used to mislead 4 FISA court judges?

If you knew anything about FISA courts, you would know that surveillance warrants are issued for 90 days, and then must be renewed to continue the surveillance. You don't always get the same judge when you go to renew, that is how. This went on for over a year, starting in May of 2016. Each time you renew, you must show fruits of the last 90 days to continue the surveillance. Big problems in the FISA courts, you may get more detail in the coming OIG report.

 

[rexlunae]

If you knew anything about FISA courts, you would know that surveillance warrants are issued for 90 days, and then must be renewed to continue the surveillance. You don't always get the same judge when you go to renew, that is how. This went on for over a year, starting in May of 2016. Each time you renew, you must show fruits of the last 90 days to continue the surveillance. Big problems in the FISA courts, you may get more detail in the coming OIG report.

Tell me this: Why do you suppose Nunes didn't go to the FISA court?

 

[THall]

Outrage is a Pavlovian response for your average Fox News viewer. They don't get outraged so much because of the substance of anything, but because the hosts on the various shows speak in a triggering tone, which leads them to spew out ill-informed and misdirected outrage. That's why they've suggested that this memo reveals five different crimes in a few posts.

you really are an idiot....

 

[rexlunae]

you really are an idiot....

Then prove me wrong. Put some substance on those loose words.

 

[THall]

Tell me this: Why do you suppose Nunes didn't go to the FISA court?

He is a congressman, the chair of the House intel committe. He would have to be a DOJ attorney or intel agency attorney to have standing in a FISA court, the courts are secret for a reason. When a DOJ official goes before the FISA court, they are EXPARTE, there is no other side to be represented. Congressmen are not even allowed access to this court or FISA judges, and have zero oversight over FISA. The judges are the sole appointment of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

 

[patrick jane]

If you knew anything about FISA courts, you would know that surveillance warrants are issued for 90 days, and then must be renewed to continue the surveillance. You don't always get the same judge when you go to renew, that is how. This went on for over a year, starting in May of 2016. Each time you renew, you must show fruits of the last 90 days to continue the surveillance. Big problems in the FISA courts, you may get more detail in the coming OIG report.

He says FOX triggers conservatives yet his sources are the ones that have been doing that for two years. He knows nothing of the FISA court, he only knows what CNN says.

 

[THall]

Then prove me wrong. Put some substance on those loose words.

Your question about Nunes ..... checkmate.

 

[jgarden]

He is a congressman, the chair of the House intel committe. He would have to be a DOJ attorney to have standing in a FISA court, the courts are secret for a reason. When a DOJ official goes before the FISA court, they are EXPARTE, there is no other side to be represented. Congressmen are not even allowed access to this court or FISA judges.

1. "THall" still hasn't addressed as to how the FBI could have gotten FISA warrants on Carter Page before the Steele Dossier was even written!
Obviously the FBI already had enough "intel" on Page prior to 2016 to convince several FISA judges to issue warrants.

2. Nunes is also on the record that he hasn't taken the time to read the transcripts and background material that were used to create the Nunes Memo - so how does he know on what basis this and previous FISA judges based their deciions?

3. Why did the House Committee refuse a request by FBI Director Wray to address it, not examine the transcripts of previous FISA decisions or interview those FISA judges who made decisions regarding Carter Page, before the Republicans decided to made this memo public?

 

[rexlunae]

He is a congressman, the chair of the House intel committe. He would have to be a DOJ attorney or intel agency attorney to have standing in a FISA court, the courts are secret for a reason. When a DOJ official goes before the FISA court, they are EXPARTE, there is no other side to be represented. Congressmen are not even allowed access to this court or FISA judges, and have zero oversight over FISA. The judges are the sole appointment of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

There is, apparently, a means by which Congress can submit comments to the court. Or at least, it's been done before:

http://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/FISCR Rules of Procedure.pdf

You would expect that there would be some mechanism for it, given that the court was created by Congress and given its authority by them. Especially as the chair of a committee with oversight responsibility for intelligence, Nunes would presumably have such access.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Given that the first FISA warrant for Carter Page was issued in 2014, 2 years before the Steele Dossier was produced (2016), just how could it have been used to mislead 4 FISA court judges?

The memo states that in December 2017, then FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe testified that “no surveillance warrant would have been sought” from the FISA court “without the Steele dossier information.”

 

[The Barbarian]

This statement contradicts what the Democrats on the Committee heard - the real question should be as to why anyone would have any more confidence in Nunes Memo than the Steele Dossier, given that Devin Nunes served on the Trump Transition Team?

Nunes did say that the Steele dossier was somewhat confirmed by other intelligence. What Nunes did not do was provide confirmation that his claim about McCabe said is correct. Given the fact that Nunes lied before, I think I know why.

Nunes is loyal to Trump, and has done his best to help him out of this mess. For that reason his word is not very trustworthy.

Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on Thursday defended an unreleased House GOP memo that alleges abuses by the FBI and Justice Department, saying that it’s not an “indictment” of those government institutions.

“What this is not is an indictment on our institutions, of our justice system. This memo is not an indictment of the FBI, of the Department of Justice. It does not impugn [special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia] investigation or the deputy attorney general,” Ryan said at a retreat for GOP lawmakers in West Virginia.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/371882-ryan-gop-memo-not-an-indictment-of-fbi-doj

 

[THall]

1. "THall" still hasn't addressed

Here you go sweet pea....

1. The warrants have to be renewed every 90 days.... Since their previous warrants bore no fruit, they had to use the fake dossier and did. If they did not need it, they would not have risked getting caught presenting false and salacious material under oath to a judge. Material they hid the source to from the FISA Judges.


2. Nunes and the whole committee reviewed the affidavits presented to the FISA judge, he does not need the transcripts......duh.

3. A U.S. Congressman had no authority to interview a FISA Judge, The are appointed by the Chief Justice, and the Judiciary is independent for obvious reasons.....duh! The House Committee has Constitutional oversight authority over the F.B.I., not the other way around.....duh! The FBI has been withholding and destroying, and losing massive amounts of evidence, and has a direct conflict of interest. A conflict of interest that gives them ZERO standing over the Committee assigned to be a check and balance on the FBI.....DOUBLE DUH!

 

[jgarden]

1. Carter Page was subject to a FBI investigation and FISA warrants after the Russians attempted to recruit him in 2013/2014 - was the FBI supposed to terminate their ongoing investigation for no other reason than the Trump Campaign, in its infinite wisdom, decided to hire him in 2016?

2. The FBI received at least 3 FISA warrants on Carter Page before the Steele Dossier was even written in 2016 - so obviously they already developed other credible sources to convince a judge!

3. Nunes and the whole committee NEVER reviewed the original affidavits presented to the FISA judge - the FBI provided that information to the Committee on the condition that only a few designated members would have access to those transcripts.

4. One of the major complaints has been that Devin Nunes has never taken the time to read the background material - a reoccurring theme in Trumpland!
Nunes left that onerous task to his staff, who read the transcripts and prepared the Memo.
Ironically the senior Democrat on the Committee has read all the transcripts and he, along with the current, Trump appointed FBI Director, both accuse the Republicans of misrepresenting the classified material!

5. If a Congressional Committee doesn't have the authority to interview a FISA judge, I suspect that their counterparts in the Senate do - given that they are in the business of confirming Supreme Court Justices.
Devin Nunes, for unknown reasons, has refused to share that information with the Republican chairman of the corresponding committee in the Senate.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

This statement contradicts what the Democrats on the Committee heard - the real question should be as to why anyone would have any more confidence in Nunes Memo than the Steele Dossier, given that Devin Nunes served on the Trump Transition Team?

Why would McCabe lie?:

The memo states that in December 2017, then FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe testified that “no surveillance warrant would have been sought” from the FISA court “without the Steele dossier information.”​

 

[The Barbarian]

Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
Given that the first FISA warrant for Carter Page was issued in 2014, 2 years before the Steele Dossier was produced (2016), just how could it have been used to mislead 4 FISA court judges?

The deep state must have a time machine! That's the only possible answer.