creation vs evolution

[Interplanner]

On Canadian national radio yesterday, the results of a test were read which had to do with the preference to have scientists 'understand' things for us.

The mock new discovery was that scientists now understand helium rain.

Group 1 was told that scientists have now discovered this fact or phenomenon and understand it. The group was then asked if they thought that there really was such a thing. 85% affirmed that.

Group 2 was told that scientists have discovered it but can't explain it. Only 10% of the group believed it actually happens.

 

[Jonahdog]

Interplanner,still waiting for a specific citation to the 2000 foot slurry of New England sandstone in the Grand Canyon. You have not provided anything specific in the literature. You make statements, I asked for specifics. if you have none just tell me and I can ignore the issue as without foundation.

the Coconino sandstone was the result of wind, not slurry. But if you have any specific reference I'll take a look at that.
And yes, I believe Lake Missoula was a catastrophic event, but that is evidence for what?

 

[patrick jane]

On Canadian national radio yesterday, the results of a test were read which had to do with the preference to have scientists 'understand' things for us.

The mock new discovery was that scientists now understand helium rain.

Group 1 was told that scientists have now discovered this fact or phenomenon and understand it. The group was then asked if they thought that there really was such a thing. 85% affirmed that.

Group 2 was told that scientists have discovered it but can't explain it. Only 10% of the group believed it actually happens.

scientists :rotfl:

 

[Interplanner]

scientists :rotfl:

But PJ, the problem here is those who follow them, and why

 

[Interplanner]

Interplanner,still waiting for a specific citation to the 2000 foot slurry of New England sandstone in the Grand Canyon. You have not provided anything specific in the literature. You make statements, I asked for specifics. if you have none just tell me and I can ignore the issue as without foundation.

the Coconino sandstone was the result of wind, not slurry. But if you have any specific reference I'll take a look at that.
And yes, I believe Lake Missoula was a catastrophic event, but that is evidence for what?

Missoula provides a more recent example of patterns of movement that happened widespread during the Genesis cataclysm.

My file on background for my novel is an inch thick. I'll keep looking. I've heard it mentioned many times. There is a whole museum near Grand Canyon to visit on this. No it is not wind-moved, which settles like the Sahara dunes, certainly not wind only. Slurry is mobile sediment and there were high winds after the total atmospheric change of the cataclysm.

the general model of the cataclysm is that there was both vertical and horizontal tectonic movement at the same time as the collapse of the pre-existing warm static climate, followed by an abrupt, violent ice age, tapering off to what we have today with polar and seasonal climate. The mammoths were eating tropical vegetation when they tried to escape the blowing 'loess' of the cataclysm! That's kind of all of it in one sentence!

 

[Jonahdog]

scientists :rotfl:

Yet you use a computer. Perhaps yours was developed by shoe makers not scientists.

 

[Jonahdog]

Missoula provides a more recent example of patterns of movement that happened widespread during the Genesis cataclysm.

My file on background for my novel is an inch thick. I'll keep looking. I've heard it mentioned many times. There is a whole museum near Grand Canyon to visit on this. No it is not wind-moved, which settles like the Sahara dunes, certainly not wind only. Slurry is mobile sediment and there were high winds after the total atmospheric change of the cataclysm.

the general model of the cataclysm is that there was both vertical and horizontal tectonic movement at the same time as the collapse of the pre-existing warm static climate, followed by an abrupt, violent ice age, tapering off to what we have today with polar and seasonal climate. The mammoths were eating tropical vegetation when they tried to escape the blowing 'loess' of the cataclysm! That's kind of all of it in one sentence!

The generally accepted interpretation of the Coconino sandstone is that it was wind blown. that is based on 1. the specific nature of the sand grains. 2. the cross bedding. 3. animal tracks found in the sandstone.

Your last paragraph is a fairy tale.

 

[Caino]

The Jews tried to trace their blood lines back to the Adam of Mesopotamian lore but they found it impossible. So they used a locally known flood legend, expanded it to drown the entire world, with the exception of their own. It was just a pseudo biographical story of origins for a faith audience of the child like minds of Stone Age sheep herders.

 

[Interplanner]

The Jews tried to trace their blood lines back to the Adam of Mesopotamian lore but they found it impossible. So they used a locally known flood legend, expanded it to drown the entire world, with the exception of their own. It was just a pseudo biographical story of origins for a faith audience of the child like minds of Stone Age sheep herders.

It's in about 500 cultures and indicates a chaotic transfer of things between cultures. For ex., there are negroid features to people after the flood in accounts from SE Asia, etc. A Mayan calendar stone is found in an excavation in Brisbane, Australia. The broad features are found in most of these accounts. There is often the disruption of the crust of the earth, and reference to volcanic or magmatic events.

 

[Interplanner]

The generally accepted interpretation of the Coconino sandstone is that it was wind blown. that is based on 1. the specific nature of the sand grains. 2. the cross bedding. 3. animal tracks found in the sandstone.

Your last paragraph is a fairy tale.

It wasn't wind that carved Monument Valley. The explanation of Monterey Canyon (submarine) is scouring by fast moving sediment slurry.

 

[Jonahdog]

It wasn't wind that carved Monument Valley. The explanation of Monterey Canyon (submarine) is scouring by fast moving sediment slurry.

And that has what to do with the Coconino sandstone?

 

[Caino]

It's in about 500 cultures and indicates a chaotic transfer of things between cultures. For ex., there are negroid features to people after the flood in accounts from SE Asia, etc. A Mayan calendar stone is found in an excavation in Brisbane, Australia. The broad features are found in most of these accounts. There is often the disruption of the crust of the earth, and reference to volcanic or magmatic events.

Cant find the Mayan calendar stone, can you show that?

 

[DansingWall]

GEN.1 [9] AND GOD SAID, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

It was by the WORD of God that the earth was created

2 PETER [3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, [4]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.[5] For this THEY WILLINGLY ARE IGNORANT of, that BY THE WORD OF GOD the HEAVENS WERE OF OLD, AND THE EARTH standing out of the water and in the water:

We are in those last days. At the time God spoke the WORD He created the heavens and the earth to look to be old. So why would God have made the heavens and the earth to appear older than they actually were at the time of creation? Was He trying to trick us? Do ya suppose it could simply come down to a matter of faith? Those with faith in God believe that God created the heavens and the earth just as the spoken Word says, even though the evidence for this is not seen.

HEBREWS 11 [1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report.[3] THROUGH FAITH WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, SO THAT THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN WERE NOT MADE OF THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR.

It really does comes down to faith. You wont be able to prove that God created the heavens and the earth (as the Word says) through science or in a debate. Common sense? Yeah. Go outside on a clear night. Look up. Think. If then you don’t understand...you dont understand.

 

[Jonahdog]

Clear night, I look up and see stars. So what, what is that supposed to suggest to me?

 

[6days]

Clear night, I look up and see stars. So what, what is that supposed to suggest to me?

That is a question you answer to yourself. For myself...in the stars His handywork I see.

 

[Jonahdog]

That is a question you answer to yourself. For myself...in the stars His handywork I see.

I think about how immense the universe is, how far away those stars are, how many other stars and galaxies there are. But I see no one's handy work.

 

[Interplanner]

Snelling's newest work, with 6 others I think, is RADIOISOTOPES AND THE AGE OF THE EARTH.

I recently met some parents of a college student who had been telling them that the standard dating systems in many natural sciences are now seen as quite tenuous. Radiocarbon, helium, salinity, etc, for ex., all mitigate against age. I awaiting some titles from the student.

 

[Interplanner]

GEN.1 [9] AND GOD SAID, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

It was by the WORD of God that the earth was created

2 PETER [3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, [4]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.[5] For this THEY WILLINGLY ARE IGNORANT of, that BY THE WORD OF GOD the HEAVENS WERE OF OLD, AND THE EARTH standing out of the water and in the water:

We are in those last days. At the time God spoke the WORD He created the heavens and the earth to look to be old. So why would God have made the heavens and the earth to appear older than they actually were at the time of creation? Was He trying to trick us? Do ya suppose it could simply come down to a matter of faith? Those with faith in God believe that God created the heavens and the earth just as the spoken Word says, even though the evidence for this is not seen.

HEBREWS 11 [1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report.[3] THROUGH FAITH WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, SO THAT THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN WERE NOT MADE OF THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR.

It really does comes down to faith. You wont be able to prove that God created the heavens and the earth (as the Word says) through science or in a debate. Common sense? Yeah. Go outside on a clear night. Look up. Think. If then you don’t understand...you dont understand.

There's much more than that, Dansing, but I understand your point. There was a humorous moment in some televised discussion about these things about 15 years ago and Dawkins or Hawking finally said, 'if there is a Creator, he is far more intelligent than anything we have talked about tonight.' I wonder if that is how 'OK, there's design in creation; but we are here to fix the problems' got started recently. I don't know what it will take, but somehow in the discussion they missed the point that "we" (who believe God created by speaking it all into existence) was far more intelligent!

When I say there is much more, there are the same things in the details of creation as out in the stars, the same in the human body. And we haven't even got to the things the fragile human longs for. Also that there is much more in the Genesis cataclysm of 6-8. It was not just 'rain.' It was the complete altercation of the natural system that existed: geology, hydrology, magnetism, magmatism, atmosphere, etc.

 

[Interplanner]

Cant find the Mayan calendar stone, can you show that?

It's kind of filed away; I can't make any promise.

 

[Interplanner]

And that has what to do with the Coconino sandstone?

It was not deposited by wind. I'm referring to layers in the Canyon that are out of sync with the expected uniformitarian scheme. But they are dried sedmiment slurry all the same. they moved across the "SW" of the US as it was then, and some continued on to carve submarine canyons off the Pacific coast. The reason for the east to west movement was the finding of New England sandstone in Grand.

One of the geologists explained his model of tectonic lift and fall with a chunk of one of those smoother foam rubber balls on water with sediment. Starting with it on top and dry, you push it down, it is covered with drifts of sediment, then you let it come back up. The drifts are shaped by the path of least resistance as the water recedes. the more solid the sand or gravel in the sediment, the less it moves the last time water crosses it.

In the case of the earth, at the same time as this contortion, 'Pangea' is also separating horizontally.