convince me welfare recipients should take drug test...

[lovemeorhateme]

Go back to your pro-abortion thread.

My Dad was willing to work but could not get a job no matter how hard he tried. In the end he was doing voluntary work up to 30 hours a week but still could not find paid employment. The only income we had growing up until I was 14 and my mum managed to get a job was from government welfare. Should we have not eaten? Should I have not eaten and suffered?

I know you love making sweeping generalisations and ignoring most of what others say, but this is a real life example. I'm curious to know what you think of such a situation and whether or not you believe we should have starved.

 

[Tambora]

My Dad was willing to work but could not get a job no matter how hard he tried. In the end he was doing voluntary work up to 30 hours a week but still could not find paid employment. The only income we had growing up until I was 14 and my mum managed to get a job was from government welfare. Should we have not eaten? Should I have not eaten and suffered?

I know you love making sweeping generalisations and ignoring most of what others say, but this is a real life example. I'm curious to know what you think of such a situation and whether or not you believe we should have starved.

No matter how bad off you are, you should NEVER steal from another, or FORCE a government to steal for you.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

If you see someone in genuine need, YOU give to him if you are able.

I'm quite happy to do so. But I can't help everyone, I don't have that ability. I also agree that if a man can work but refuses to, he doesn't deserve any help in the form of welfare or food stamps. I'm asking about those who can't work for whatever reason - it could be health issues or simply that they can't get a job even though they are trying hard.

I'm talking about a safety net which will help those in this situation; what do you find so objectionable about it?

 

[lovemeorhateme]

No matter how bad off you are, you should NEVER steal from another, or FORCE a government to steal for you.

Are you implying that my parents were thieves for using a system which was set up to help those who could otherwise not afford to eat?

My Dad will be drawing his state pension soon. Will he be stealing from others when he does so?

lain:

 

[Tambora]

I'm quite happy to do so. But I can't help everyone, I don't have that ability. I also agree that if a man can work but refuses to, he doesn't deserve any help in the form of welfare or food stamps. I'm asking about those who can't work for whatever reason - it could be health issues or simply that they can't get a job even though they are trying hard.

I'm talking about a safety net which will help those in this situation; what do you find so objectionable about it?

I know what you are talking about.

But to give any government the OK to forcibly take from others is NOT the answer.

 

[Tambora]

Are you implying that my parents were thieves for using a system which was set up to help those who could otherwise not afford to eat?

How did that "system" get the money to give your dad in the first place?

 

[lovemeorhateme]

I know what you are talking about.

But to give any government the OK to forcibly take from others is NOT the answer.

In a democracy, is it taking by force if the overwhelming majority agrees?

What would you propose is a better system to help those who face the situation my parents did?

 

[lovemeorhateme]

How did that "system" get the money to give your dad in the first place?

Through taxation. Indeed, he paid taxes himself for the many years he was in work. It's effectively an insurance system which people use in times of great need. I don't object to those who have fallen on difficult times getting this help. I feel as a Christian I would be wrong to object to something which helps the poor and needs.

As I said, he wasn't lazy in the sense he was working 30+ hours a week for free as a volunteer while looking for paid employment which he couldn't find. As he got older, heart problems also became an issue along with ageist employers who write off most people who are 50+

 

[Tambora]

In a democracy, is it taking by force if the overwhelming majority agrees?

A majority does not always make the right decision.
If it did, we wouldn't have millions of babies murdered in womb.

What would you propose is a better system to help those who face the situation my parents did?

The same as folks did for thousands of years - kindness and a freewill offering.

There is not one other person in the whole world that should be FORCED to take care of you.
Not one.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Should his child work to eat? Should they starve because of the parents?

Sometimes people will work, and cant get a job, what about them?

Whether one believes we should have public assistance or not, we have it, so these are legit questions.

Should a child starve because of its parents?

 

[Tambora]

Whether one believes we should have public assistance or not, we have it, so these are legit questions.

Should a child starve because of its parents?

Should?
No.

But it does happen all over the world, even with all the "systems" that have been set up to steal from others

Stealing is stealing.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Should?
No.

But it does happen all over the world, even with all the "systems" that have been set up to steal from others

Stealing is stealing.

How is it stealing when one pays taxes in, well more than one might have received in food stamps for a short time for example?

Can you steal from yourself?

 

[lovemeorhateme]

A majority does not always make the right decision.
If it did, we wouldn't have millions of babies murdered in womb.

That is true, the majority does not always make the right decision and indeed it's abhorrent that millions of babies are murdered in the womb. That being said, I don't see how helping a suffering family who cannot work through no fault of their own is in any way comparable to the murder of innocent babies.

The same as folks did for thousands of years - kindness and a freewill offering.

There is not one other person in the whole world that should be FORCED to take care of you.
Not one.

If you are getting help from a system you paid in to, who is being forced to take care of you?

 

[Arthur Brain]

If you see someone in genuine need, YOU give to him if you are able.

What if you aren't? What if nobody else in the surrounding area is either able or willing to? Should that person starve and lose their home etc?

 

[Tambora]

If you are getting help from a system you paid in to, who is being forced to take care of you?

Paid?

I haven't paid the system.
The system forcibly took it from me.

We used to recognize steeling when it happened.
Now everyone wants to call it something else.

 

[Tambora]

What if you aren't? What if nobody else in the surrounding area is either able or willing to? Should that person starve and lose their home etc?

That might very well happen.
But if anyone thinks the alternative is to start stealing from others, they are wrong wrong wrong.

 

[Angel4Truth]

That might very well happen.
But if anyone thinks the alternative is to start stealing from others, they are wrong wrong wrong.

Would you steal if you had a newborn and no income and no one would help you feed your child?

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Paid?

I haven't paid the system.
The system forcibly took it from me.

We used to recognize steeling when it happened.
Now everyone wants to call it something else.

Theft: To dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

Do taxes match that definition of theft? The Bible has a lot to say about paying taxes after all. That being said, I'm assuming you are selective in what you support the government paying for and what you don't? For example are you happy to pay taxes for a universal fire service, the police or the military?

I pay may taxes as the law dictates. I have no problem with that, it's my duty to do so. I don't see it as being forcibly taken.

 

[Arthur Brain]

That might very well happen.
But if anyone thinks the alternative is to start stealing from others, they are wrong wrong wrong.

Considering that many people who have fallen on hard times have already contributed to the system that helps out in times of need then it's rather sad that you think people starving and being homeless is "acceptable". Do you have the same ire for overpaid corporate fat cats and celebrities who "earn" ridiculous amounts of wages in turn?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Would you steal if you had a newborn and no income and no one would help you feed your child?

What loving parent wouldn't if that was the only recourse left to feed the baby? Be interesting to see Tam's answer to this one...