ChristianForums banned Christ.

[Sarcastikus]

You've been duped on the DNA side of things. Look at this recent article, especialy the comments section, for a demonstration of how you've been duped by the declarative claims of things like the recent LA Times article--

http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1406

Okay, I'll look into it. I'm always willing to explore differing views of a subject. Thanks.

 

[Mustard Seed]

with Zion / the New Jerusalem in Independence, Missouri ???

:rotfl: :hammer:

There's York and New York. Brunswick and New Brunswick. The trend is all over history. Why do you incist that simply because something has a similar name that it must be the same physical location? Jerusalem (the Jerusalem we all know in the Mid-East) and the New Jerusalem (in Missouri) will be co-capitals of the world during the Millenium. Christ's throne will be in the Temple in Old Jerusalem. Administration of the world (the law) will be done from Zion, the New Jerusalem in America.

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

--Micah 4:2

 

[Mustard Seed]

Okay, I'll look into it. I'm always willing to explore differing views of a subject. Thanks.

I appreciate the willingness you display. I'm not saying we can prove our side. I'm just saying the absolutist stance taken, or portrayed, with the likes of the article title "Bedrock of a Faith Is Jolted" is truly disengenuous on the part of those who make it. It truly is like saying that Christianity would be shaken to it's core if the shroud of turin was shown to be a fraud. The assumptions made, on the science side, the theological side and the means of presenting it like it's the equivilant sure fire argument as using DNA in something like a criminal case is absured. I hope you do take the time to do it with sufficient depth.

 

[oftenbuzzard]

for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

--Micah 4:2

Ever heard of synonomous parallelism in Hebrew wisdom literature? The thoughts repeat the same concept.

Probably doesn't come through in Reformed Egyptian when disciphered with a peep stone in a Stetson by a convicted glass looker.

Shall mortal man be more just than God?
Shall a man be more pure than his Maker?

So I assume here (by your interpretative principle) that "God" and "Maker" are two different entities?



--------Bonus-----

Here's a parody for you of the Doors' classic, "People are Strange"..

Mormons Look Strange

Mormons look strange, wearin' those undies
Dunkin' a proxy, cause you're gone.

Prophets get randy, when you are nubile
New revelation, if you should frown.

When you've no brain - prozac makes you feel sane (sane) (sane)
When you've no brain - you want to change the King James
When you've no brain - When you've no brain - When you've no br-ain

 

[godrulz]

There's York and New York. Brunswick and New Brunswick. The trend is all over history. Why do you incist that simply because something has a similar name that it must be the same physical location? Jerusalem (the Jerusalem we all know in the Mid-East) and the New Jerusalem (in Missouri) will be co-capitals of the world during the Millenium. Christ's throne will be in the Temple in Old Jerusalem. Administration of the world (the law) will be done from Zion, the New Jerusalem in America.

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

--Micah 4:2

The New Jerusalem in Revelation is a heavenly city that comes down to earth. Jerusalem (see Zech.) is where Jesus will return to reign during the millennium. Mormonism is an American perversion of the Gospel. Bible prophecy is centered in the Middle East and the nation of Israel. North America is not explicitly revealed in biblical prophecy since it is not the focal point of God's plan.

Mormon missionaries encounter people in third world countries who relate Mormonism to a successful American lifestyle. They buy into this North American gospel not realizing it cannot deliver on spiritual promises. The audacity of the LDS organization to think that the U.S. will be a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. It is more likely that the U.S. will be judged as godless by and large.

 

[Sarcastikus]

You've been duped on the DNA side of things. Look at this recent article, especialy the comments section, for a demonstration of how you've been duped by the declarative claims of things like the recent LA Times article--

http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1406

Okay, I read several articles dealing with the DNA evidence and I think I understand the LDS position on the matter. One of the articles said that many LDS think the BoM says that all the native people of the Americas are/were descendants of Jewish settlers when it doesn't say that at all. The article I'm refering to is at:

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/bom/bom07.html

 

[Sarcastikus]

Google

A View of the Hebrews (1823) by Ethan Smith (no FAMILIAL relation to Joseph)

and you'll find an earlier proponent of Injun Israelism

It's available online, I read parts of it a few years ago. The "Injun Israelism" theories were quite active in the early 19th century.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Okay, I read several articles dealing with the DNA evidence and I think I understand the LDS position on the matter. One of the articles said that many LDS think the BoM says that all the native people of the Americas are/were descendants of Jewish settlers when it doesn't say that at all. The article I'm refering to is at:

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/bom/bom07.html

That's just a part of it. The other part is the disengenuous portrayal of the DNA evidence, and it's failures with respect to the claims made by those pushing this as some definative set back.

Do you understand the nature of Mitochondrial DNA, such as how it only passes through matriarcal lines?

 

[Mustard Seed]

The New Jerusalem in Revelation is a heavenly city that comes down to earth. Jerusalem (see Zech.) is where Jesus will return to reign during the millennium. Mormonism is an American perversion of the Gospel. Bible prophecy is centered in the Middle East and the nation of Israel. North America is not explicitly revealed in biblical prophecy since it is not the focal point of God's plan.

It will come down and join with the portion that is prepared to receive them.

Mormon missionaries encounter people in third world countries who relate Mormonism to a successful American lifestyle. They buy into this North American gospel not realizing it cannot deliver on spiritual promises. The audacity of the LDS organization to think that the U.S. will be a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. It is more likely that the U.S. will be judged as godless by and large.

I agree that it's more likely that the current culture and populace of the US will be judged thusly. You seem to forget the like judgements (and destructions) prophesied, and fullfilled upon Jerusalem and it's inhabitants. The idea you proffer that the wickedness of a people nullifies the promised land status of a land would leave Jerusalem, the only city to crucify the Son of God, in rather poor shape.

The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they brepented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Or you've Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum, all part of the "promised land" yet they'll receive condemnation worse than some of the most imfamously wicked lands in the Bible.



21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

--Matt. 11

So your view that it's egotistical for a people to claim their land is a promised land then you cannot say that Israel, or the Jews, have been free of egotism that extends beyond their righteousness DESPITE thee fact that YOU certainly conceed the promised land status of the literal land of Israel.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Ever heard of synonomous parallelism in Hebrew wisdom literature? The thoughts repeat the same concept.

Probably doesn't come through in Reformed Egyptian when disciphered with a peep stone in a Stetson by a convicted glass looker.

Ever hear of DUALISM? It's rather pronounced in Ancient Jewish thought. The idea of something like a prophesy being applicable to two, three, or any number of future events or items? Or do you only pull out those devices that specificaly seem advantageous to, or to cast dispersions on, whatever position you are trying to support or oppose, respectively?

So I assume here (by your interpretative principle) that "God" and "Maker" are two different entities?



---
Originally Posted by job 4:17


Shall mortal man be more just than God?
Shall a man be more pure than his Maker?
---

This is all reminicent of a quote from a recent book I read. The quote from the book--

"You're making a mistake," said Quim.

"You made the mistake by coming here."

"I mean you're making a doctrinal mistake. You've got the lines down right--fasting in the wilderness, stones into bread, all of it. But didn't you think it might be a little too self-revelatory for you to give yourself Satan's part?"​

--Xenocide by Orson Scott Card

Did you realize who the person speaking the words you are quoting from the book of Job was? Do you realize WHO they are directed at? Do you understand what God felt toward the man, and the other men, who were engaged in the same act? Do you take the words of those men, condemned for their words by God, as correct doctrine? Do you see no congruency between what those men were doing to Job and what YOU, and others here, are doing to me and my faith? You are demonstrating quite well the second half of the following proverb.

Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.

 

[oftenbuzzard]

Ever hear of DUALISM? It's rather pronounced in Ancient Jewish thought. The idea of something like a prophesy being applicable to two, three, or any number of future events or items? Or do you only pull out those devices that specificaly seem advantageous to, or to cast dispersions on, whatever position you are trying to support or oppose, respectively?




This is all reminicent of a quote from a recent book I read. The quote from the book--

"You're making a mistake," said Quim.


"You made the mistake by coming here."

"I mean you're making a doctrinal mistake. You've got the lines down right--fasting in the wilderness, stones into bread, all of it. But didn't you think it might be a little too self-revelatory for you to give yourself Satan's part?"
​

--Xenocide by Orson Scott Card[/b]

Did you realize who the person speaking the words you are quoting from the book of Job was? Do you realize WHO they are directed at? Do you understand what God felt toward the man, and the other men, who were engaged in the same act? Do you take the words of those men, condemned for their words by God, as correct doctrine? Do you see no congruency between what those men were doing to Job and what YOU, and others here, are doing to me and my faith? You are demonstrating quite well the second half of the following proverb.

Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.

So Where does it say in the Zion/Jerusalem verse you cite and claim is dualism that either is in MISSOURI ???

This ought to be your life verse-- You are the one wearing the magic underwear.

 

[Sarcastikus]

Do you understand the nature of Mitochondrial DNA, such as how it only passes through matriarcal lines?

Yes, I'm aware how mitochondrial DNA is passed. I saw a program on TLC or the Discovery Channel about how humanity isn't as genetically diverse as it was thought to be and that at some point, about one hundred thousand years ago (if I remember correctly), humanity went through a genetic "bottle-neck" when the number of humans was drastically reduced, perhaps to as few as a couple of thousand. There is evidence of the eruption of a super-volcano in Indonesia at about that time which caused climatic changed which resulted in the "bottle-neck". It was the lack of diversity in the mitochondrial DNA and the steady rate of change (mutation?) of that DNA that lead to the "bottle-neck" conclusion.

I also realized that part of the problem with native peoples of the Western Hemisphere not having "Jewish" DNA is that there's no such thing as "Jewish" DNA. Though there are racial and ethnic genetic differences there is no genetic material that determins a person's religion and/or spirituality.

 

[Mustard Seed]

buzz,

Your response is only two lines, a question and an infantile attempt at mud slinging. You seem oddly reserved in that response.

Do you believe that the woman who touched Christ's clothes was healed? Would you mock the holy garments of Aaron?

 

[oftenbuzzard]

buzz,

Your response is only two lines, a question and an infantile attempt at mud slinging. You seem oddly reserved in that response.

Do you believe that the woman who touched Christ's clothes was healed? Would you mock the holy garments of Aaron?

I believe the Bible.
I do not believe the Book of Mormon or any of Joseph's blasphemous malarkey.

You are not wearing Aaron's garments.

I suggest you do what a friend of mine did. Leave the LDS church and use the garments for oil rags. I hear they work great for that!

 

[Mustard Seed]

You are not wearing Aaron's garments.

At least you conceed the existance of holy garments. That's all I wanted to see.

 

[oftenbuzzard]

At least you conceed the existance of holy garments. That's all I wanted to see.

Reread my post. I do not consider your magic underoos to be holy (they may be holey -- but please no pictures).

 

[Mustard Seed]

Reread my post. I do not consider your magic underoos to be holy (they may be holey -- but please no pictures).

I never said you did. But those outside Judeo-Christian belief have little care for differentiating between the 'holy' of the Bible and the 'magic' of the many myths of the world. To them the Red Sea parting is as hocus pocus as you seem to view our underclothing.

 

[SteveG.]

Sounds like CF.com is trying far too hard to be polite and in the process depriving readers some good, solid and informative debating. What a bunch of pansies.

 

[Sarcastikus]

... those outside Judeo-Christian belief have little care for differentiating between the 'holy' of the Bible and the 'magic' of the many myths of the world.

Isn't it a matter of interpretation? One person's myths may be another's truth; what one may consider mere magic may to another be a miraculous act of (a) God.

 

[godrulz]

buzz,

Your response is only two lines, a question and an infantile attempt at mud slinging. You seem oddly reserved in that response.

Do you believe that the woman who touched Christ's clothes was healed? Would you mock the holy garments of Aaron?

Jesus, not the clothes, healed the person. Mormons ascribe powers to their undergarments that have nothing to do with the presence and power of God. They are mystical, superstitious beliefs borrowed from Masons (no Christian group should have any identification with Masons...another reason to reject Mormonism).