Mustard Seed
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Lighthouse said:
A "fact" so apparent that you must continue to state it whilst trying to defame my name on these boards and slander my faith. Do you know who the master slanderer is? Are you following the WWSD moto?
ChristianForums banned Christ.
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A "fact" so apparent that you must continue to state it whilst trying to defame my name on these boards and slander my faith. Do you know who the master slanderer is? Are you following the WWSD moto?
You know, Mustard Seed. I have grown fond of you, in some perverse sort of way. You should come on over to CF and post with us in the UTD forum. You'd see much more action than you do here, and we could have such wonderful discussions together.Mustard Seed said:
I do go by a different name there, though. But I wouldn't keep you in the dark too long. :angel:
Mustard Seed
New member
godrulz said:
If you thought I was disputing 2+2=4 then you didn't understand what I was saying.
HerodionRomulus
New member
Lighthouse said:
Just because someone is a polytheist does not mean that everything said is wrong. Just the part of claiming that the Utah version of LDS is authentic Christianity.
Neither Christianity nor Judaism is polytheistic.
Mustard Seed
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no avatar said:
Tell you what. You commit to read at least 100 pages in the Book of Mormon over the next two months (that's not quite two pages a day) and I'll return there to discuss things with you and your friends in that forum. Deal?
Mustard Seed
New member
no avatar said:
Regardless. Will you read it again, at least a hundred pages over the next couple months?
So far, I find the BOM comparatively boring. It does not have the ring of truth and authority of the Bible (except where it plagiarizes the Bible?!). Praying to see whether it is true is a subjective apologetic. Millions of Muslims prayerfully believe the Koran is true. An objective examination of the BOM will show that it is not the Word of God (nor does it contain much unique Mormon doctrine).
I've heard of that "burning in the bosom" that people are supposed to get as an affirming sign when they pray and ask if the BOM is true. What a wonderful invitation for Satan to give just such an experience to the biblically illiterate to deceive them into Mormonism. Read the Bible and compare it to Mormonism, that will tell you if the teachings of Mormonism are true.
oftenbuzzard
New member
Lynn73 said:
Yep, the old "If you GLOW you KNOW" apologetic as opposed to Acts 17:11
These (Bereans) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
versus
These (Mormon) were more gullible than those in Berea, in that they received the words of Joseph Smith with all subjectivity of mind, and examined their bosoms daily, whether those things made them glow.
Mustard Seed
New member
"Did not our heart...
"Did not our heart...
25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
33And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
--Luke 24
Yeah, that damned subjective burning of the heart that fooled those "gullible" Apostles.
"Did not our heart...
oftenbuzzard said:
25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
33And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
--Luke 24
Yeah, that damned subjective burning of the heart that fooled those "gullible" Apostles.
Mustard Seed
New member
godrulz said:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
--Isa. 29:14
5 ¶ Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
--Jer. 17:5
8 ¶ For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my aways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
--Isa. 55: 8-9
Only a fool thinks they can understand God's will through just a book and their mind.
Subjective feelings must be based on objective truth. We should have an emotional response to the Word and presence of God (as a Pentecostal, we know about emotionalism and intellectualism).
The danger is that many religions, including Satanism, have burning feelings (look at the Muslims) about their religion and sacred writings.
Just because the disciples experienced His power and presence through Scripture and the Living Christ in their midst, does not justify a subjective apologetic for every false religion in the world. It is possible for the flesh or demons to counterfeit this. We need discernment. I have powerful feelings too. Is my experience more or less valid than yours? Are our experiences the definitive criteria for truth? If so, we are both right, though we have diametrically opposed views?!
The JW and Mormon meetings I have attended, left me with the same dead, oppressive, evil spirit-feeling that I felt in a Muslim mosque. My spirit is grated visiting false religions, while I sense His peace, power, presence, joy, love, etc. in Bible-based churches, regardless of the denomination. I still do not base my faith on these feelings. I can study archaelogy, hermeneutics, textual criticism, etc. and know my feelings are based on a solid foundation of biblical truth (vs presumption). I can study the Watchtower, Koran, and the history/works of Mormonism and objectively know it contradicts biblical truth or scientific research.
If the so-called Mormon prophets were hearing from God (instead of relying on feelings and fears), they would not have been fooled by the Salamander letters (unlike the anti-Mormon Tanners and others who discerned early on the fraud). Joseph Smith would not have rejected Judeo-Christian monotheism for pagan 'plurality of gods', etc. His subjective experiences/imagination put him in the realm of deception and an angel of light. You have another gospel and a counterfeit Christ (Gal. 1:6-10; 2 Cor. 11:4).
I feel it and know it based on research.
Bearing your testimony may convince yourself and others in your circle, but it does not change biblical revelation that refutes your church.
The danger is that many religions, including Satanism, have burning feelings (look at the Muslims) about their religion and sacred writings.
Just because the disciples experienced His power and presence through Scripture and the Living Christ in their midst, does not justify a subjective apologetic for every false religion in the world. It is possible for the flesh or demons to counterfeit this. We need discernment. I have powerful feelings too. Is my experience more or less valid than yours? Are our experiences the definitive criteria for truth? If so, we are both right, though we have diametrically opposed views?!
The JW and Mormon meetings I have attended, left me with the same dead, oppressive, evil spirit-feeling that I felt in a Muslim mosque. My spirit is grated visiting false religions, while I sense His peace, power, presence, joy, love, etc. in Bible-based churches, regardless of the denomination. I still do not base my faith on these feelings. I can study archaelogy, hermeneutics, textual criticism, etc. and know my feelings are based on a solid foundation of biblical truth (vs presumption). I can study the Watchtower, Koran, and the history/works of Mormonism and objectively know it contradicts biblical truth or scientific research.
If the so-called Mormon prophets were hearing from God (instead of relying on feelings and fears), they would not have been fooled by the Salamander letters (unlike the anti-Mormon Tanners and others who discerned early on the fraud). Joseph Smith would not have rejected Judeo-Christian monotheism for pagan 'plurality of gods', etc. His subjective experiences/imagination put him in the realm of deception and an angel of light. You have another gospel and a counterfeit Christ (Gal. 1:6-10; 2 Cor. 11:4).
I feel it and know it based on research.
Bearing your testimony may convince yourself and others in your circle, but it does not change biblical revelation that refutes your church.
Mustard Seed
New member
no avatar said:
Curious as the scriptures that you have weren't the same that the Bereans had. Some of your scriptures hadn't even been written at that time. So what were all the scriptures held by and studied by the Bereans?
Mustard Seed said:
The Holy Spirit illuminates truth. He gives understanding to His revelation. Your problem is that you have a new 'revelation' that has no historical basis in the early church that contradicts the older revelation (not just complements or clarifies it).
I do not understand truth through my natural mind. We rely on the Spirit, teachers in the body of Christ (I Jn.; Eph. 4), sound translation/interpretation principles, etc. We do not rely on natural learning.
An anti-intellectual approach can lead to deception (you have a branch of 'apologetics/scholarship' for LDS beliefs, so why make an issue of this?).
In Corinthians, Paul was against pagan, Greek philosophy, not divine revelation from God that requires the mind and study (2 Tim. 3:16) to comprehend.
Using your mind and heart to understand truth is not parallel to following pagan, heretical philosphy to find God.
Mustard Seed
New member
godrulz said:
How can you tell what an objective truth is? How can you tell that it's a subjective feeling based on objective truth? How do you know the subjective feeling you have is not merely the subjective manifestation of a form of intellectualism? What a fool you are to think we can, without any reference ever to anything subjective formulate anything purely objective? And if we can only approach objectivism but never really reach it then have we ever really left subjectivity?
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