Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Pro-Traditional Marriage Cake

[Jose Fly]

Then anti-discrimination law violates the First Amendment, when it forbids a Christian from abstaining from participating in the promulgation of views directly opposed to their Christian faith.

Nope. The First Amendment prohibits the gov't from impeding the free exercise of religion. Baking cakes is not exercising one's religion.

If you want to go that route, then racist groups have an even stronger case. Many of them base their racism on the Bible. If we were to apply your above argument to them, the racists could open a business and refuse to serve anyone but white Christians.

Obviously that's not the case, so it's a failed legal argument.

I fail to see how it is a crime to refuse to participate in the promulgation of views directly opposed to the Christian faith. Perhaps you can lay it out for me ?

Again it's pretty simple. Many state and local gov'ts have anti-discrimination laws that prohibit discriminatory business practices based on a number of categories (race, religion, sex, sexual orientation). Any for-profit business that is open to the public must abide by those laws.

Thus, a business owner can't refuse to hire someone because they're gay, black, or Jewish. Similarly, a business can't refuse service to members of the public for the same reasons.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Why not ? I wouldn't have a Christian baker forced by law to bake a two-groom/bride cake, and I wouldn't have an LGBTQ baker forced by law to bake a cake with a Cross on it (in my hypothetical world where the Cross represents as it always has until recently loving disapproval of LGBTQ-marriage). :idunno: We have the right to be anti-religion just as much as religious.

again it falls back to just because you can do something...does not mean you should.

We have the right to hate others, even express that hate, but I'm sure most would agree we shouldn't.

these people on both sides are just pushing the issue, like they want their ten seconds of fame, go viral!

it's no more necessary for a Christian baker to refuse to make a cake for a gay marriage (within reason, all special writings and characters aside) to keep their beliefs intact than it is necessary for a gay baker to not make a hetero wedding cake based on their beliefs, they are choosing to refuse based on their right to do so not the necessity to do so to keep their beliefs intact.

that being said any baker Christian or otherwise is not required by law to have same sex figurines in stock, a gay couple may be forced on their own to look elsewhere for one that does.....

 

[Jose Fly]

The other problem is if we allow bakers exemptions from anti-discrimination laws based on their religious beliefs, we have to allow landlords, bankers, taxi cab drivers, and every other professional the same exemption.

Do we understand where that would lead?

 

[Dialogos]

So if a gay baker declines to make you a cake with "gay marriage is wrong" on it, he is not infringing on your ability to practice your religion, right?

No more than a Christian baker declining to make a so called wedding cake for a same sex couple.

The Christian can dial another baker and so can the same sex couple.

The problem that the videos illustrate are the hypocrisy of the homosexual agenda and the injustices of the judiciary which has absolutely disregarded the first amendment when it comes to the freedom of religion of conservative Christians who hold the bible as innerant and authoritative.

Its pretty simple. The bible says that homosexuality is a sin. The bible also says not to participate in sin or give one's approval to sin and furthermore the bible says "take no part in unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."

Refusing to bake a cake for a so called same sex wedding is acting in accord with the first part of the verse and asking for a cake that says, "same sex marriage is wrong" is acting in accordance with the second.

 

[Jedidiah]

No, it doesn't according to the Supreme Court.

"Freedom of religion means freedom to hold an opinion or belief, but not to take action in violation of social duties or subversive to good order," Chief Justice Waite wrote in Reynolds v. United States (1878).​

here.

So you're arguing that creating the symbols that represent the antithesis of Christian faith is what is meant by "...social duties..." and "...good order..." ? Can you walk me through that ?

Is it against anti-discrimination law to refuse to bake a cake upon which is depicted in frosting a black swastika on a white circle on a crimson background ? If not, why not ?

 

[Doom]

The other problem is if we allow bakers exemptions from anti-discrimination laws based on their religious beliefs, we have to allow landlords, bankers, taxi cab drivers, and every other professional the same exemption.

Do we understand where that would lead?

In most cases it would lead to those businesses not being visited by customers and going out of business. Just like it does if you have a reputation of serving bad food. That's how it should work.

 

[Jose Fly]

No more than a Christian baker declining to make a so called wedding cake for a same sex couple.

The Christian baker isn't infringing on anyone's ability to exercise their religion.

The Christian can dial another baker and so can the same sex couple.

"You can just go somewhere else" is a failed legal argument.

The problem that the videos illustrate are the hypocrisy of the homosexual agenda and the injustices of the judiciary which has absolutely disregarded the first amendment when it comes to the freedom of religion of conservative Christians who hold the bible as innerant and authoritative.

Its pretty simple. The bible says that homosexuality is a sin. The bible also says not to participate in sin or give one's approval to sin and furthermore the bible says "take no part in unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."

Refusing to bake a cake for a so called same sex wedding is acting in accord with the first part of the verse and asking for a cake that says, "same sex marriage is wrong" is acting in accordance with the second.

So basically you're saying Christians should be allowed to discriminate against gays in any business practices and public accommodation.

Do we extend this same exemption to Christians who hold racist views based on how they read the Bible?

 

[Jose Fly]

In most cases it would lead to those businesses not being visited by customers and going out of business. Just like it does if you have a reputation of serving bad food. That's how it should work.

Tell that to the Jim Crow South.

 

[Doom]

Tell that to the Jim Crow South.

Do you want to legislate morality or not?

 

[Town Heretic]

Do you want to legislate morality or not?

No, though the partially good news is that much of morality finds a full justification in secular, objective reason, which is a plus. When it doesn't it has to remain a matter of conscience.

 

[Jose Fly]

Do you want to legislate morality or not?

???????? What's your point?

 

[Doom]

???????? What's your point?

The point is, when it suits your own brand of morality, you have no issues with passing legislation to support it.

 

[Jose Fly]

The point is, when it suits your own brand of morality, you have no issues with passing legislation to support it.

And you don't operate the same way? :idunno:

 

[Doom]

And you don't operate the same way? :idunno:

Yep, so we are going to continue t-it for tat all day, because I believe that homosexuality is immoral and you don't. Either it gets settled through legislation or another civil war. The latter is most likely.

 

[Jose Fly]

Yep

Well that's good, because I can't imagine someone supporting legislation that enforces a moral code that they disagree with.

I believe that homosexuality is immoral and you don't. Either it gets settled through legislation or another civil war. The latter is most likely.

Seriously? You would go to war over homosexuality?

 

[jeremysdemo]

puritan?

modern day pharisees... not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Doom]

Seriously? You would go to war over homosexuality?

In a heartbeat. I'm disappointed it hasn't already happen.

 

[Nick M]

"You can just go somewhere else" is a failed legal argument.

Of all the idiot things I have read in life, this is at the top. Well done you fool. Karl Marx and Satan are proud.

 

[Lighthouse]

To repeat Lighthouse's point, they wouldn't have to do due diligence on all their customers because it's not about the sins of the customers; it's about the purpose of the requested cake.

germy demon proves again he's an insipid twit.

So we should ask people what they plan to do with anything they purchase? As problematic or, failing, as hypocritical. We only need to be concerned if someone lets us know?

Who knows, that linen may be used in a gay wedding. Those steak knives? What are you buying that sugar and flour for? Are you thinking of baking a cake for a gay wedding? lain:

Do you seriously not know the difference between obvious and obscure?

Nope. The First Amendment prohibits the gov't from impeding the free exercise of religion. Baking cakes is not exercising one's religion.

Baking a cake in celebration of sin is a violation of certain religions, and refusal to do so is well within the parameters of exercising said religions.

If you want to go that route, then racist groups have an even stronger case. Many of them base their racism on the Bible. If we were to apply your above argument to them, the racists could open a business and refuse to serve anyone but white Christians.

Except they can't support their beliefs with actual Scripture.

Again it's pretty simple. Many state and local gov'ts have anti-discrimination laws that prohibit discriminatory business practices based on a number of categories (race, religion, sex, sexual orientation). Any for-profit business that is open to the public must abide by those laws.

Thus, a business owner can't refuse to hire someone because they're gay, black, or Jewish. Similarly, a business can't refuse service to members of the public for the same reasons.

Actually they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

 

[TracerBullet]

Any business, organization, or individual should not only be free to discriminate against bigots, Christian or otherwise, but it is the right thing to do. The behavior does not deserve equal rights, but equal justice with those who commit murder, child molestation, adultery, rape, etc.

The entertainment industry and the depraved media might have the biggest voice in this fight, and weak-minded people might believe their false claims about gays and follow them like lemmings, but bigoted behavior will always be abhorrent, immoral and unworthy of acceptance in a civilized society.