Christian censorship: Atheist billboard taken down

[Town Heretic]

DS:

I was so locked into my own message I missed what you were aiming at in one particular.

So here goes: I don't find atheism tasteless, though I differ strongly with its context. I don't find billboards tasteless, though I'd as soon they were't a part of the landscape. I find the calculated combination of the two on the week of Christmas to be in poor taste. Which goes to the integral part of your inquiry and objection, one I misread by the light of my own objection. Hopefully that's clearer now, though I think it's rather hard to read my objection without that being clear enough. I wasn't hearing you, mistook your aim on the point re: iphone.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

It is anti Christian in context.

On what basis? Atheism is in disagreement with Christianity, sure, but so is every non-Christian Religion. This remains the case 365 days a year.

I didn't say it was anti Christmas

And yet your objection relates to it occurring specifically during Christmas. Do Christians cease to exist during the rest of the year? Are Christians more offended by an atheist billboard during Christmas?

I didn't say that was what made it tasteless. I said the timing and the calculated trading on that did. A bit different.

I was under the impression that the timing is what elicited the negative response and/or outrage (the foreseeable sentiment..), no? If not then what significance does the timing have exactly? An ad for Turkey before Thanksgiving "trades on the season" as well, no? Where are you drawing the line?

But then you treated it as though it was the answer, which is disingenuous.

It was an answer, to which I gave a response. If the answer, only works in conjunction with some other point, you should indicate this; Otherwise I'm going to dissect your statements in the manner that you dissect mine.

No, I said the timing was, repeatedly.

Well, no, actually you said:

"I'm not particularly moved by the claim of an infringement of speech here since the tasteless billboard in question..."

You may have indicated that the timing is what made it such, but I'm not going to quibble over semantics here.

The iphone attempt wasn't a parallel in any meaningful sense. It was only parallel in that it was an example of something you might find on a billboard. I wasn't objecting to billboards

You are missing the point here. The hypothetical "Buy the new iPhone" ad is used to demonstrate that many of the supplied reasons you presented for why you found the atheist billboard tasteless were so broad that they could have applied to virtually any billboard.

If the argument you are using applies both to a thing you accept and a thing you reject, it is an invalid argument by virtue of counter-example. Thus I am using what I will call the iPhone Principal to determine which objections are specific to the atheist billboard and which would apply to any billboard under identical circumstances.

Rather it's what the timing says about the placement, what their intent was in choosing that particular and that's where my wedding analogy comes in.

Except that as you've already agreed, atheism is not anti-Christmas, so the analogy does not work.

I'd differ with the billboard whenever it went up, but placing it, like that sign in my actual parallel, inside the particular context and willfully, calculatedly is both insensitive and tasteless.

To my mind, you still haven't given a convincing reason for that. If people see a billboard targeted at atheists as being insensitive to Christians, I think that says more about them then it does about the billboard.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

DS:
I don't find billboards tasteless, though I'd as soon they were't a part of the landscape.

They are illegal in Hawaii if I recall correctly. I certainly didn't see any when I was there.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

I think I see the bone of contention here. You see the billboard as utilizing negative responses for free publicity. I don't see any good reason for there to be negative responses in the first place.

 

[Town Heretic]

On what basis?

Contextually, fundamentally.

And yet your objection relates to it occurring specifically during Christmas.

The tasteless part, yes. In November I'd simply find it wrong headed. The group targeted a time of celebration among a particular group, one with a fundamental contextual opposition and I believe it was done with an eye to the inevitable publicity (free) that would accompany it. I find that in poor taste. To you it may simply be a clever bit of business garnering or a great way to really hammer home the message, etc.

Do Christians cease to exist during the rest of the year?

Is Christmas week or Easter just another day on the calendar to Christians or are they of great importance and note? I think we both know the answer. And that was why I used the bridal party illustration.

Are Christians more offended by an atheist billboard during Christmas?

I think the billboard placement was counting on it to one degree or another. And I think it's reasonable to expect they were right. It's one thing to say you object to marriage at a party and another to do so at a wedding.

An ad for Turkey before Thanksgiving "trades on the season" as well, no? Where are you drawing the line?

I'm sure a vegetarian would find it offensive too, but if you made a point of starting an "Eat More Meat" campaign during National Vegetarian Week (and most of the population were actually vegetarians) I'd say you were aiming for something.

 

[fool]

Town;
If we set this billboard put up during the Christmas season as the standard of tastelessness and call that 1 on a 1 to 10 scale then where on the scale is celebrating Robert E Lee's birthday coincident with MLK day?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I think I see the bone of contention here. You see the billboard as utilizing negative responses for free publicity. I don't see any good reason for there to be negative responses in the first place.

It appears that you are either deliberately misinterpreting the responses or you are incapable of thinking beyond the ability of a well-trained house pet.

Giving you the benefit of doubt and assuming that you are deliberately misinterpreting the responses, I will state plainly what has been told to you over and over again.

Because Christmas is one of the top two Christian holy days, putting up a billboard promoting Atheism at Christmas time is seen as a deliberate act designed to create more controversity than if the same billboard was put up at any other time of the year, with the sole exception of the billboard being put up at Easter time.

If it is your contention that the timing of the billboard to coincide with Christmas time was not intentional, no one will believe you.

Are Christians more offended by an atheist billboard during Christmas?

Because of the churlishness implicit in the timing of the billboard to coincide with Christmas time, the answer is, "Yes, but you already knew that, so stop being an idiot."

 

[genuineoriginal]

Town;
If we set this billboard put up during the Christmas season as the standard of tastelessness and call that 1 on a 1 to 10 scale then where on the scale is celebrating Robert E Lee's birthday coincident with MLK day?

Considering that Robert E Lee's birthday celebration was already in existance when MLK day was announced as a holiday, you really meant to ask where on the scale is celebrating MLK day on Robert E Lee's birthday, right?

 

[Town Heretic]

Town;
If we set this billboard put up during the Christmas season as the standard of tastelessness and call that 1 on a 1 to 10 scale

Why does an atheist, who would be among the offending party, get to set where the offense falls along the scale?

then where on the scale is celebrating Robert E Lee's birthday coincident with MLK day?

They aren't comparable unless you're suggesting that Robert E. Lee deliberately came into the world on the 19th of January so that his descendants and others could one day screw around with people attempting to celebrate King's sacrifice in the Civil Rights Movement on years when the two fall together.

 

[PureX]

They are illegal in Hawaii if I recall correctly. I certainly didn't see any when I was there.

Areas of Australia have banned them as well.

One of my most earnest wishes for the health of modern culture and society is that we finally ban all advertising except in specific and limited capacities: specific radio and TV channels created for the purpose of advertising, specific print catalogues created for that purpose, specific web catalogues, etc.,.

Commercial advertising is, I believe, the single most destructive force in modern culture.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Because Christmas is one of the top two Christian holy days, putting up a billboard promoting Atheism at Christmas time is seen as a deliberate act designed to create more controversity than if the same billboard was put up at any other time of the year, with the sole exception of the billboard being put up at Easter time.

Why should having an atheist billboard up during Christmas be controversial? Is it controversial to have a Muslim billboard up during Christmas as well? Or a Jewish billboard? Or Buddhist?

As I've stated elsewhere, Atheism disagrees with Christianity, but so does every non-christian religion. Why the special treatment?

Because of the churlishness implicit in the timing of the billboard to coincide with Christmas time, the answer is, "Yes, but you already knew that, so stop being an idiot."

If it is 'more' tasteless during Christmas, that would imply that it is 'less' tasteless the rest of the year no?

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Contextually, fundamentally.

What context? Be specific.

 

[fool]

Why does an atheist, who would be among the offending party, get to set where the offense falls along the scale?

So set it out for us.

They aren't comparable unless you're suggesting that Robert E. Lee deliberately came into the world on the 19th of January so that his descendants and others could one day screw around with people attempting to celebrate King's sacrifice in the Civil Rights Movement on years when the two fall together.

But what about "the dominate culture, wedding party, etc, etc"?

Did the Atheists deliberately come into a world that celebrates Christmas just to screw around with Christians?

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Perhaps people take more offense when they are feeling more pious?

:liberals:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Why should having an atheist billboard up during Christmas be controversial?

You ask why having a billboard that promotes the idea that there is no God up during a Holy Day that celebrates God is controversial?

Are you trying to get people to believe that you are no more intelligent than a pet rock?

Is it controversial to have a Muslim billboard up during Christmas as well?

Muslims are generally known to be more observant of their holy days than Christians are, and the Muslim holy days rotate throughout the year every 32 years, so Muslim holy days will often occur on or near Christmas, such as Ramadan in 1998-2000. Few Christians would be offended to see a billboard promoting Islam during Christmas.

Or a Jewish billboard?

Jews are generally known to be more observant of their holy days than Christians are, and the Jewish holy days of Chanukkah will always occur in December, sometimes on Christmas. Few Christians would be offended to see a billboard promoting Judaism during Christmas.

Or Buddhist?

Buddhists are generally known to be more observant of their spiritual practices than Christians are, but few Christians really understand what Buddhist practices and beliefs are. Most Christians would just be confused to see a billboard promoting Buddhism during Christmas.

As I've stated elsewhere, Atheism disagrees with Christianity, but so does every non-christian religion. Why the special treatment?

Atheism is the general religious belief that there is no gods, and more specifically the religious belief that the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible does not exist. I state this because Atheists spend much more time arguing against the Judeo-Christian God than against any other god.

If it is 'more' tasteless during Christmas, that would imply that it is 'less' tasteless the rest of the year no?

It is a churlish act anytime during the year, but it is a boorishly churlish act during Christmas.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Did the Atheists deliberately come into a world that celebrates Christmas just to screw around with Christians?

No, but they deliberately put up a billboard during Christmas just to screw around with Christians, and you know it.

 

[annabenedetti]

You ask why having a billboard that promotes the idea that there is no God up during a Holy Day that celebrates God is controversial?

Are you trying to get people to believe that you are no more intelligent than a pet rock?


It is a churlish act anytime during the year, but it is a boorishly churlish act during Christmas.

What do you think, that passing Christians were all so filled with rage they couldn't see where they were going and swerved off the road, leaving the area around the billboard littered with car wrecks?

Or do you think most of them gave it a passing thought (if they noticed it at all), or maybe a whole line of thought, or maybe saw a teaching moment for their children riding with them, a chance to talk about their beliefs and the beliefs (and non-beliefs) that others hold, and how we live in a country that allows us those freedoms?

 

[genuineoriginal]

What do you think, that passing Christians were all so filled with rage they couldn't see where they were going and swerved off the road, leaving the area around the billboard littered with car wrecks?

Could you explain to everyone on this site why you are so quick to take the Anti-Christ position on every issue?

 

[annabenedetti]

Could you explain to everyone on this site why you are so quick to take the Anti-Christ position on every issue?

You're deflecting. Try answering the question instead. (Especially the part you conveniently decided not to quote.)

It's not an "Anti-Christ position" to expect that most Christians would have a grown-up approach to passing that billboard. Are you saying my expectations were too high?

 

[fool]

No, but they deliberately put up a billboard during Christmas just to screw around with Christians, and you know it.

They put up a billboard to reach out to other Atheists during a time when society is saturated with religion, and you know it.