ECT Christ suffered and died to atone for the sins of believers.

[popsthebuilder]

It is good to hear others speak the truth about coming to Christ, asking for forgiveness with all intent to stop sinning, and being cleaned by his blood. However, I believe that the Almighty Father can do anything that He wants, and that He came as a Man in the flesh and died for us.

I can prove that easily with scriptures, except that it is not easily seen by those who have chose to believe a teaching from a choice denomination, for most who have done that have made up their mind and are too stubborn to hear the truth.

I do not claim that the Christ wasn't the embodiment of GOD. Who am I to limit the power of GOD by asserting such? There are many many things in scripture that refute Jesus of Nazareth as a man being co eternal with GOD. There are verses that show that Jesus as a man was not omniscient either. There are yet more speaking of how GOD and the Holy Spirit are...well...spiritual and not man.

I mean not to contend with you as your doctrine that I have read thus far seems to align quite rightly with scripture.

But to me the scenario I described in my previous post is that of confusion.

Regardless, we seem to be on the same page for the most part.

I would be very pleased to hear your take on the nature of Christ and GOD. Please feel free to validate your position with scripture. I do look forward to speaking with you further.

Humbly, peace

Sent from my HTC Desire 512 using Tapatalk

 

[God's Truth]

I do not claim that the Christ wasn't the embodiment of GOD. Who am I to limit the power of GOD by asserting such? There are many many things in scripture that refute Jesus of Nazareth as a man being co eternal with GOD. There are verses that show that Jesus as a man was not omniscient either. There are yet more speaking of how GOD and the Holy Spirit are...well...spiritual and not man.

I mean not to contend with you as your doctrine that I have read thus far seems to align quite rightly with scripture.

But to me the scenario I described in my previous post is that of confusion.

Regardless, we seem to be on the same page for the most part.

I would be very pleased to hear your take on the nature of Christ and GOD. Please feel free to validate your position with scripture. I do look forward to speaking with you further.

Humbly, peace

Sent from my HTC Desire 512 using Tapatalk

I can't tell you how good it is to hear this from you. I want to share so much with you about what I believe about Jesus and what I found in the scriptures.

I have to log off here for now and hope that we can discuss deeply the things of God soon.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Christ suffered and died to atone for the sins of believers.

So then, you say you have the Holy Spirit living inside you. Will you now believe the scriptures that say that Jesus is the Spirit?

GT,

Jesus is all, and ALL belongs to Jesus.

He is indeed the Perfect Image of the Father.

The Spirit breathed Itself into mankind.

This forged the Son of God that was also the Son of Man.

Father and Son ONE.

The Spirit walked in Flesh, the greatest Temple of Time, that the Timeless could demonstrate how we bound by time may understand Him PERFECTLY.

He taught us that HE is our Faith, Hope and Love.

He taught us that when we are pinned between the Egyptian and the Ocean, we must NOT be of FEAR.

We must BE STILL and TRUST in FAITH.

1st John 4:

13 This is how we know that we remain in Him and He in us: He has given assurance to us from His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and we testify that the Father has sent His Son as the world’s Savior. 15 Whoever confesses[g] that Jesus is the Son of God—God remains in him and he in God. 16 And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.

17 In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, for we are as He is in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out FEAR, because fear involves punishment.[h] So the one who FEARS has not reached perfection in love. 19 We love because He first loved us.

20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For the person who does not love his brother he has seen cannot love the God he has not seen.[j] 21 And we have this command from Him: The one who loves God must also love his brother.

...................................

I doubt you even understand that the perfection is to strive to reflect the PERFECT LOVE to ALL as Christ did.

I suggest that you are afraid, and do not understand THAT Grace is the Hands of God molding our clay hearts to LOVE as HE.

You claim to BE as the Father, and miss the call to LOVE AS the Son.

Do you Love your sinful family?

Do you Love your broken family?

Do you deny that ALL who cling to his garment are LOVED by Him, despite their imperfection?


I DRAW up Scripture of STEAL that is unbending.......

Romans 4

Abraham Justified by Faith

4 What then can we say that Abraham, our physical ancestor, has found?

2 If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.

(((He wasn't justified by works of the flesh like CAIN who Toiled in the Soil --- dust of Humanity... Flesh--- And in doing so found God didn't accept his sacrifice)))

3 For what does the Scripture say?

Abraham believed God,and it was credited to him for righteousness.

(((He offered up FAITH in the LAMB of Sacrifice --- Jesus.... Like Able..... Yes, I'm calling Ables sacrifice of a lamb a parallel to the sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away ALL the Sins of the world)))

4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.

(((You believe God Owes you because of your Obedience)))

5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

(((I am declared righteous BY FAITH)))

David Celebrating the Same Truth

6 Likewise, David also speaks of the blessing of the man God credits righteousness to apart from works:

7 How joyful are those whose lawless acts are forgiven
and whose sins are covered!

(((Love covers a multitude of Sin. And further more, obedience in flesh is true lawlessness, for I rest in Jesus, while you believe you are sinless like Jesus. You declare your flesh well, and thus deny your need for the gift of Jesus)))

8 How joyful is the man
the Lord will never charge with sin!

((( I am indeed joyful and I proclaim my need for the Rock EVERY day!!!)))

Perfect Love has no fear, and with our shining Savior as my model of PERFECT Love, I will not let your ideas of SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS trouble my heart any longer.... May God deal Lovingly with you GT)))

Peace and Sorrow

 

[radind]

Are you kidding? Only Jesus can be called Rabbi, and those scriptures PROVE it that you are NOT to call anyone but Jesus 'Rabbi'.

You are almost right, except for John 3:26.
However, my point was about "yoke" and you have not commented on this.

Each master rabbi had his own particular interpretation of the Torah (Tanakh) and that interpretation was called “his yoke.”

There has to be a way to refer to names in history and in the dictionary without violating scripture.

 

[Bradley D]

So then, are you saying you also believe that no one is saved unless they believe and obey by repenting of their sins?

Repentance (sorrow) comes first. Belief that Christ died for our sins and we can be saved comes to those who chose to believe. Belief also means to "do" therefore, abide/obey is committing ourselves to Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

Repentance (sorrow) comes first. Belief that Christ died for our sins and we can be saved comes to those who chose to believe. Belief also means to "do" therefore, abide/obey is committing ourselves to Christ.

That is good to hear. There are many here that say we do not have to repent of our sins to be saved, and that repent is not of sins but merely a changing of one's mind about God.

 

[God's Truth]

You are almost right, except for John 3:26.

How do you think that scripture means I am almost right? John the baptizer came before Jesus.

However, my point was about "yoke" and you have not commented on this.

I do not know what you want me to comment on.

There has to be a way to refer to names in history and in the dictionary without violating scripture.

Are these "Rabbis" you want to speak of before or after Jesus?

 

[God's Truth]

GT,

Jesus is all, and ALL belongs to Jesus.

He is indeed the Perfect Image of the Father.

He has the SAME Spirit of the Father.

The Spirit breathed Itself into mankind.

This forged the Son of God that was also the Son of Man.

The Bible says Jesus IS THE SPIRIT.

Father and Son ONE.

The Spirit walked in Flesh, the greatest Temple of Time, that the Timeless could demonstrate how we bound by time may understand Him PERFECTLY.

He taught us that HE is our Faith, Hope and Love.

He taught us that when we are pinned between the Egyptian and the Ocean, we must NOT be of FEAR.

We must BE STILL and TRUST in FAITH.

1st John 4:

13 This is how we know that we remain in Him and He in us: He has given assurance to us from His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and we testify that the Father has sent His Son as the world’s Savior. 15 Whoever confesses[g] that Jesus is the Son of God—God remains in him and he in God. 16 And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.

17 In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, for we are as He is in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out FEAR, because fear involves punishment.[h] So the one who FEARS has not reached perfection in love. 19 We love because He first loved us.

20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For the person who does not love his brother he has seen cannot love the God he has not seen.[j] 21 And we have this command from Him: The one who loves God must also love his brother.

...................................

I doubt you even understand that the perfection is to strive to reflect the PERFECT LOVE to ALL as Christ did.

How do you not get that what Jesus teaches is HOW TO LOVE. If you do not obey, you do not know how to love deeply and sincerely.

I suggest that you are afraid, and do not understand THAT Grace is the Hands of God molding our clay hearts to LOVE as HE.

I take pleasure in the fear of the LORD. Obeying by fearing God makes one easily not sin.

You claim to BE as the Father, and miss the call to LOVE AS the Son.

The Father and the Son are the exact same.
Do you mean to say the old law and the new law?

Do you Love your sinful family?

I love everyone, but I will not be the sinful family member that does not obey all things that Jesus says.

Do you Love your broken family?

Do you deny that ALL who cling to his garment are LOVED by Him, despite their imperfection?

You are not speaking the Truth. God loves those who love Him by obeying Him. I have scripture, the written Word of God. You have false teachers words, which are garbage, as Paul says.

I DRAW up Scripture of STEAL that is unbending.......

Romans 4

Abraham Justified by Faith

4 What then can we say that Abraham, our physical ancestor, has found?

2 If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.

That is about the works of circumcision. What is wrong with you? Abraham's faith was tested BY WHAT HE DID!!! Are you so daffy?

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

(((He wasn't justified by works of the flesh like CAIN who Toiled in the Soil --- dust of Humanity... Flesh--- And in doing so found God didn't accept his sacrifice)))

I can hardly believe you made that twisted assertion.

3 For what does the Scripture say?

Abraham believed God,and it was credited to him for righteousness.

That is about being RIGHTEOUS before the RIGHTEOUS/CEREMONIAL works, such as CIRCUMCISION.

(((He offered up FAITH in the LAMB of Sacrifice --- Jesus.... Like Able..... Yes, I'm calling Ables sacrifice of a lamb a parallel to the sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away ALL the Sins of the world)))

You are mistaken. Abel's sacrifice was better than Cain's because Abel's was a blood sacrifice, and Cain had a jealous heart that would NOT be humble.

Tell me the name of the teacher who taught you wrong.

4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.

(((You believe God Owes you because of your Obedience)))

My obedience to God's POWERFUL WORD is life, it is eating God's flesh, it is Spirit

5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

(((I am declared righteous BY FAITH)))

What happened to the ceremonial works? You are ensnared not to get it and remember.

David Celebrating the Same Truth

6 Likewise, David also speaks of the blessing of the man God credits righteousness to apart from works:

Again, that is about the ceremonial works.

7 How joyful are those whose lawless acts are forgiven
and whose sins are covered!

(((Love covers a multitude of Sin. And further more, obedience in flesh is true lawlessness,

That is an evil thing to say. Who but the devil would be behind anyone saying it is lawlessness to obey with our flesh?



Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

for I rest in Jesus, while you believe you are sinless like Jesus. You declare your flesh well, and thus deny your need for the gift of Jesus)))

You have to lie about me to defend your ill beliefs.

8 How joyful is the man
the Lord will never charge with sin!

If you keep sinning and do not repent, do you really think it is ignored by God?
How evil to think that God has been defeated and joined the side of evil doers.

((( I am indeed joyful and I proclaim my need for the Rock EVERY day!!!)))

Perfect Love has no fear,

Perfect love HAS NO FEAR IN PUNISHMENT BECAUSE IT DOES NO WRONG AND DOES NOT SIN!!!!!!


1 Peter 3:13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?

and with our shining Savior as my model of PERFECT Love, I will not let your ideas of SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS trouble my heart any longer.... May God deal Lovingly with you GT)))

Peace and Sorrow

You are being convicted by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Interplanner]

He has the SAME Spirit of the Father.



The Bible says Jesus IS THE SPIRIT.



How do you not get that what Jesus teaches is HOW TO LOVE. If you do not obey, you do not know how to love deeply and sincerely.


I take pleasure in the fear of the LORD. Obeying by fearing God makes one easily not sin.


The Father and the Son are the exact same.
Do you mean to say the old law and the new law?

I love everyone, but I will not be the sinful family member that does not obey all things that Jesus says.

You are not speaking the Truth. God loves those who love Him by obeying Him. I have scripture, the written Word of God. You have false teachers words, which are garbage, as Paul says.

That is about the works of circumcision. What is wrong with you? Abraham's faith was tested BY WHAT HE DID!!! Are you so daffy?

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,


I can hardly believe you made that twisted assertion.



That is about being RIGHTEOUS before the RIGHTEOUS/CEREMONIAL works, such as CIRCUMCISION.



You are mistaken. Abel's sacrifice was better than Cain's because Abel's was a blood sacrifice, and Cain had a jealous heart that would NOT be humble.

Tell me the name of the teacher who taught you wrong.


My obedience to God's POWERFUL WORD is life, it is eating God's flesh, it is Spirit



What happened to the ceremonial works? You are ensnared not to get it and remember.



Again, that is about the ceremonial works.



That is an evil thing to say. Who but the devil would be behind anyone saying it is lawlessness to obey with our flesh?



Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.


You have to lie about me to defend your ill beliefs.


If you keep sinning and do not repent, do you really think it is ignored by God?
How evil to think that God has been defeated and joined the side of evil doers.

Perfect love HAS NO FEAR IN PUNISHMENT BECAUSE IT DOES NO WRONG AND DOES NOT SIN!!!!!!


1 Peter 3:13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?



You are being convicted by the Holy Spirit.

On perfect love casts out fear, I don't think you've got the picture. He's referring to God's love, not ours. The passage says so, categorically. He means that we don't have fear (of people) because God loves us as well as them.

 

[God's Truth]

On perfect love casts out fear, I don't think you've got the picture. He's referring to God's love, not ours. The passage says so, categorically. He means that we don't have fear (of people) because God loves us as well as them.

That is not what that scripture means!

Do you want God's love in you?! God is love and God pours out His love in our hearts; that is having the Holy Spirit. God does not even give the Holy Spirit to those who do not obey Him. I already gave the scripture that says LOVE IS OBEDIENCE. As for fearing God, those are the people who get saved and it is to those who get sin out of their life. There are those who take pleasure in the fear of the Lord.

Do you have any idea what that means?

Isaiah 11:3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.

 

[radind]

How do you think that scripture means I am almost right? John the baptizer came before Jesus.

I do not know what you want me to comment on.


Are these "Rabbis" you want to speak of before or after Jesus?

I actually did not want to speak of any Rabbis. I only wanted to comment on the concepts involving the 'yoke'.
It would be easier to dialogue if you would just make your point instead of posting a series of questions.

 

[radind]

I thought that this idea of the "yoke" as the rabbi's 'interpretation of the Torah (Tanakh) ... that interpretation was called “his yoke.”' was interesting.

 

[radind]

How do you think that scripture means I am almost right? John the baptizer came before Jesus....

John was born first, but when the verse was describing an incident when both Jesus and John were alive on the earth. It appears to me that John was then addressed as 'Rabbi'.

John 3:26 (NASB)
26 And they came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, behold, He is baptizing and all are coming to Him."

 

[radind]

Actually, it is not off track to teach that OUR SINS must be confessed and stopped. It is a sin to call another man 'Rabbi'. If you sin and call others 'Rabbi', then you need to stop it, according to Jesus Christ.

I was referring to historical statements about 'yoke' . I was not calling anyone anything.

 

[radind]

...Are these "Rabbis" you want to speak of before or after Jesus?

I went back to the original site and there is no information about specific dates. ( My focus was on the concept of the “yoke”). It appears to me that this was part of the general education process in place for Jewish boys during the age when Jesus was on the earth.
I only wanted to comment on the concept of the "yoke", but is interesting to learn new information.

http://theonlinebibleschool.org/cou...-roots/241-2-jesus-as-rabbi-jewish-roots.html
… “The Mishnah is the rabbinical interpretation of Scripture written sometime between 70 – 200 A.D. Jewish scholars believe it contains the oral traditions that were present from the 1st century B.C. to 1st century A.D. It also contains historical documentation, ethical, social, and legal considerations, as well as rabbinical literature. In the Mishnah, it reflected what happened during Jesus’ lifetime , including the educational process for a young Jewish boy.”…

http://theonlinebibleschool.org/cou...sh-roots/241-3-take-my-yoke-jewish-roots.html
… "To establish their authority, all rabbis of the 1st century A.D. automatically taught under the name of their teachers and predecessors before them. In other words, if they were educated in the Beit (House of) Hillel (see Lesson II), great emphasis was put on Hillel and his interpretations, along with other prestigious rabbis that came out of that particular House of Study. That present-day rabbi used quotes from these great men to establish authority to their message. If that rabbi was a master rabbi and prestigious enough, meaning he had “smikhah,” (great authority), he could then give his own new interpretation of the Scripture used as he saw fit. Jesus taught only on His authority (smikhah).”…

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Christ suffered and died to atone for the sins of believers.

He has the SAME Spirit of the Father.

GT, I have buried my answers by embedding them in your quote. Perhaps if I mix my words with yours you'll listen more closely............

How do you not get that what Jesus teaches is HOW TO LOVE. If you do not obey by believing in faith alone you do not know how to love deeply and sincerely.


I take pleasure in the friendship of the LORD. Obeying Jesus's Command to Believe, Trust and Love in His name forgave all of my debts past to present.


The Father and the Son are One per Jesus words and the Law of Moses/Stone/Israel was fulfilled in their Flesh.

I love everyone, but I will not be the self proclaimed, perfect family member that makes everyone else feel like trash.

You are not speaking the Truth. God loves those who love Him and those that hate Him. God asks faith. He then asks we extend his mercy. There is no Mercy in demanding perfection.

That is about the works of circumcision. I.e. .. Righteousness by Flesh

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

He helped his neighbor out of the love debt he received when he understood God's unmerited favor.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,........................ He believed God was good, and unlike the Gods of that day that constantly asked for human sacrifice. Isaac went willingly because he trusted his fathers goodness.


I can hardly believe you made that twisted assertion.



That is about being RIGHTEOUS before the RIGHTEOUS/CEREMONIAL works, such as CIRCUMCISION of the flesh being symbolic of righteous claims in the flesh.


You are mistaken. Abel's sacrifice was better than Cain's because Abel's was a blood sacrifice, and Cain had a jealous heart that would NOT be humble.
(Who's proud here?).
(Who is focused on proclaiming themselves without sin)
(How mad would you be if God told you that my faith is sufficient?)

Tell me the name of the teacher who taught you wrong.
(The Spirit of the anointing of 1 John 2:27)


My obedience to God's POWERFUL WORD in FAITH, HOPE and LOVE is life, it is eating God's flesh, it is Spirit



What happened to the ceremonial works? You are ensnared not to get it and remember. (Do you Even understand what Deuteronomy 31:26 means in reference to the law?)



Again, that is about the ceremonial works. (Again, ask a Jew why they don't like what Paul is saying about the Law)



That is an evil thing to say. Who but the devil would be behind anyone saying it is lawlessness to obey with our flesh? (There is a difference in following God and claiming you obey unto perfection)



Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

Well spoken


You have to lie about me to defend your ill beliefs.


If you keep sinning and do not repent, do you really think it is ignored by God?
How evil to think that God has been defeated and joined the side of evil doers.
(Would you please quit beating His servants and look for the Beam that might be obstructing your perfect vision?)

Perfect love HAS NO FEAR IN PUNISHMENT BECAUSE IT DOES NO WRONG AND DOES NOT SIN!!!!!! (Because Jesus is that Perfect work of Obedience and Love so we can focus on the Love part, not the works of the fleshly obedience/Law)


1 Peter 3:13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?
(You ya stubborn pain in the ear)


(You are so full of beans if you are now calling yourself the Holy Spirit)
You are being convicted by the Holy Spirit.

Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."

 

[God's Truth]

I actually did not want to speak of any Rabbis. I only wanted to comment on the concepts involving the 'yoke'.
It would be easier to dialogue if you would just make your point instead of posting a series of questions.

You were calling people Rabbi and Jesus said not to do that.

 

[God's Truth]

I thought that this idea of the "yoke" as the rabbi's 'interpretation of the Torah (Tanakh) ... that interpretation was called “his yoke.”' was interesting.

Who?

 

[God's Truth]

Matthew 23:8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

 

[God's Truth]

John was born first, but when the verse was describing an incident when both Jesus and John were alive on the earth. It appears to me that John was then addressed as 'Rabbi'.

John was killed. Jesus said not to call anyone Rabbi. Why do you call those who reject Jesus 'Rabbi'?