cheap salvation

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Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Ben Masada said:
The Genesis account of Creation is an allegory. If it had to be as literal as you believe it was, I did not know that you believed in talking serpents. Don't you feel embarrassed to confess your faith in talking serpents in the middle of the First Century?
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Why are you on TOL? You certainly have no interest in Christianity.
You're not trying to gain converts to Judaism. Are you here just to
take swipes at the Christian faith?
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
lifeisgood said:
1 - Since, from your perspective, Genesis is in the form of an allegory/metaphorical literature, then also the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

2 - Why do you follow an allegory/metaphorical G-d from an allegory/metaphorical literature?

3 - Following your perspective about Genesis then Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Joseph, Adam & Eve, Cain & Abel, Benjamin, Abimelech, Esau, Sarah, Laban, and especially Israel, are all allegory/metaphorical. Got it.

4 - Before you ask, because if a person says that the foundation of their belief is allegory/metaphorical literature, then............
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1 - I did not say that the book of Genesis is an allegory but the Genesis account of creation was written in the form of an allegory. Do you think a Jew would give you this one free to add to the slanders of the Jews? Have you ever heard about the great Jewish Theologian Moses Maimonides? After I was revealed the truth about the book of Job, that the whole book is an allegory, I found Moses Maimonides in his book "Guide for the Perplexed" that, literally, the personage Job never existed. The book had been written as an allegory to point to the role of Israel as the mediator between God and the Gentiles qua Emmanuel. (Job 42:8)

2 - Go ahead and enjoy your discrepancies. Any one can see that you wish you could believe God as a Jew does.

3 - You missed the book of Job, and I never said that Theology was easy to understand. You should have a course in Theology for the preliminaries. How about a course in Judaica in the University of Judaism in Los Angeles? That's a good one. Oh! BTW, Satan does not exist in reality as a being but as a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man. Add that too.

4 - Can you prove any of the literal things you believe in? No, not a single one. You have to believe them all by faith and leave the understanding with Paul. That's what he implied in II Cor. 5:7.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Why are you on TOL? You certainly have no interest in Christianity.
You're not trying to gain converts to Judaism. Are you here just to
take swipes at the Christian faith?
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Tell me something Grosnick, was Jesus a Christian or a Jew? Did I hear a Jew? Yes, so why are you using a Jew to preach against his own Faith which was Judaism? Now, you can see why I am here, to stop you from vandalizing Judaism with the things of Christianity. The name is Replacement Theology and this is my answer to your question why I am here.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Ben Masada said:
Tell me something Grosnick, was Jesus a Christian or a Jew? Did I hear a Jew? Yes, so why are you using a Jew to preach against his own Faith which was Judaism? Now, you can see why I am here, to stop you from vandalizing Judaism with the things of Christianity. The name is Replacement Theology and this is my answer to your question why I am here.
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Well, your "work here" won't come to fruition. I have no further interest
in conversing with you. Bye.
 
rocketman

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
brewmama said:
It's interesting how you guys transpose the meaning of cheap grace around to make it mean the opposite of what it means...Is it intentional, and therefore deceitful? Or just out of ignorance? No one is saying that what Christ did was cheap, but that you give nothing in return. You are cheap.

Do you despise Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who coined the phrase? According to Bonhoeffer, cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ. "Our humanitarian sentiment made us give that which was holy to the scornful and unbelieving... But the call to follow Jesus in the narrow way was hardly ever heard."
Cheap grace, Bonhoeffer says, is to hear the gospel preached as follows: "Of course you have sinned, but now everything is forgiven, so you can stay as you are and enjoy the consolations of forgiveness." (Hmm, sounds familiar). The main defect of such a proclamation is that it contains no demand for discipleship. In contrast to cheap grace,"costly grace confronts us as a gracious call to follow Jesus, it comes as a word of forgiveness to the broken spirit and the contrite heart. It is costly because it compels a man to submit to the yoke of Christ and follow him; it is grace because Jesus says: "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." "
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So you are saying you bought your salvation? That it was your works, not his? You either don't understand the Gospel or you are just a works based believer...pure & simple.
 
brewmama

brewmama

New member
rocketman said:
So you are saying you bought your salvation? That it was your works, not his? You either don't understand the Gospel or you are just a works based believer...pure & simple.
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Where exactly did I say that? You ignore what I actually do say and just come back with your standard rote nonsensical reply.
 
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iamaberean

New member
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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