Cell Trends

[bob b]

I am starting this thread to present evidence to back up my opinion that the apparent complexity and sophistication of cellular mechanisms is growing with time and additional research.

I am starting in the year 2001 and will gradually work forward to the present. My source is http://www.creationsafaris.com/crev200609.htm

Note that the entries are kept by year/month. For example the following entry would be under January 2001.

Cells Do Their Own Triage 01/30/2001
According to an article in this week's Science News (Vol 159 p. 54, 01/27/01), specialized proteins perform emergency first aid and morgue duty. Proteins dubbed "chaperones" are able to recognize badly-folded proteins and fix them. Another protein acts as a coroner and breaks apart proteins that are beyond repair.

Proteins cannot perform their duties if they are not folded properly. The folding gives the protein chain (a string of amino acids) its three-dimensional structure, which is essential to its function. This kind of intricate molecular origami is accomplished partly by the affinities of parts of the molecule for each other due to the specific order of amino acids (that is why the sequence of amino acids cannot tolerate much error), and partly with the assistance of helper enzymes. But mistakes happen. How does the cell recognize an error? How do brainless, sightless molecules perform first aid? How could a cell survive that didn't have these capabilities from the start? How can evolutionists believe that it could? To all the above, amazing.

 

[bob b]

New Role for Ubiquitous ATP Molecule: Pain Trigger 10/26/2000
Nature’s Feature of the Week reports on a new role for the amazing ATP molecule. “ATP – adenosine triphosphate – is to the body what oil is to the industrialized world. Produced in virtually every cell of every living thing, it is the primary power source for reactions as diverse as muscle contraction, protein synthesis and heat generation. Now new research confirms a very different role for ATP – as a trigger for pain receptors.”
Multiple functions for parts is an example of design efficiency and elegance. The 1997 Nobel prize winners in chemistry found that ATP in living things from single-celled organisms to man is generated by a complex three-phase proton motor. One biologist was heard to say that if these mechanisms stopped working, you would be dead before you hit the ground. How can anyone believe that complex functioning micro-motorized machines like ATP synthase, and the multiple functions of the amazing ATP molecule that is not only the universal energy currency in all of life but also a multipurpose tool, is the work of blind chance?

 

[Unbeliever]

I am starting this thread to present evidence to back up my opinion that the apparent complexity and sophistication of cellular mechanisms is growing with time and additional research.

I seriously doubt that anyone will disagree with this. Of course we find new things the more we look.

The difference is that I'm going to wait and see where this new information leads. While I suspect that you, on the other hand, will loudly declare, "See. God must have done it!"

They call it "argument from personal incredulity" for a reason.

 

[mighty_duck]

Only two posts in, and there is already a trend. The same thought that went in to labeling the eye as irreducibly complex - IE remove this part, and the eye stops functioning.

A more fruitful search would be to find what are the bare minimum a proto cell needs to have to survive, not what a modern cell relies on for survival.

Multiple functions for parts is an example of design efficiency and elegance

So I guess non functioning or inefficient parts are examples of a limited designer? Gotta love my man-nipples and eye's blind spots..

 

[bob b]

Only two posts in, and there is already a trend.

Be patient, there are some 300 in my queue. At one a day this may take a while. :wave:

The same thought that went in to labeling the eye as irreducibly complex - IE remove this part, and the eye stops functioning.

The concept is called "irreducible complexity", but each case must be investigated on its own merits.

A more fruitful search would be to find what are the bare minimum a proto cell needs to have to survive, not what a modern cell relies on for survival.

That one is in the queue I am posting, but the estimate by scientists was recently revised upwards to something greater than 300 genes.

So I guess non functioning or inefficient parts are examples of a limited designer? Gotta love my man-nipples and eye's blind spots..

The trend of scientists discovering additional cellular function is cumulative (like evolution?).

 

[Ohnos]

Proteins cannot perform their duties if they are not folded properly. The folding gives the protein chain (a string of amino acids) its three-dimensional structure, which is essential to its function. This kind of intricate molecular origami is accomplished partly by the affinities of parts of the molecule for each other due to the specific order of amino acids (that is why the sequence of amino acids cannot tolerate much error), and partly with the assistance of helper enzymes. But mistakes happen. How does the cell recognize an error? How do brainless, sightless molecules perform first aid? How could a cell survive that didn't have these capabilities from the start? How can evolutionists believe that it could? To all the above, amazing.

Wait, so you're saying God is controlling all of these proteins? I actually just laughed at this, what a horribly sick God you must believe in if you truly believe he is responsible for every action these proteins take.

 

[aharvey]

Wait, so you're saying God is controlling all of these proteins? I actually just laughed at this, what a horribly sick God you must believe in if you truly believe he is responsible for every action these proteins take.

Yes, that part always gets me too. On the one hand, life is so extraordinarily complex that no natural process could be responsible for it. On the other hand, there's no question that natural processes are responsible for the actual day-to-day operation, and replication, of those same extraordinary complexities.

 

[bob b]

Time for the daily dose of reality.

“Dead” Plant Cells Regulate Their Water Intake 01/26/2001
Xylem isn’t just deadwood, according to a new study in the journal Science. The woody cells respond to changes in salinity and mineral content, and can regulate the speed at which water rises in the stem.

How a tree can pump water up hundreds of feet is still a feat not thoroughly understood, and now this study casts new light on a function of cells thought to be inert. How did brainless plants figure out all this chemistry? By unguided, impersonal, purposeless forces?
ScienceNOW 29 December 2000: 2

 

[snowy]

How did brainless plants figure out all this chemistry?

This is so funny.. :chuckle: It's like asking how did a stupid fly figure out all the math and physics of aerodynamics in order to actually fly.

Or, even better pointing to a "benevolent" designer -- how did a simpleton virus figure out all the biochemistry needed to reproduce itself so efficiently while ravaging the cells of the host organism?!

By unguided, impersonal, purposeless forces?

Yeah, meet the "laws of nature" . Don't take them personally.

For if there were a "personal" force behind the "marvelous design" of, say, AIDS and deadly flu viruses, or any other plague-causing microorganisms then I'd really have quite a few really nasty things to say against such a sick, evil-minded "designer"..

 

[bob b]

This is so funny.. :chuckle: It's like asking how did a stupid fly figure out all the math and physics of aerodynamics in order to actually fly.

Or, even better pointing to a "benevolent" designer -- how did a simpleton virus figure out all the biochemistry needed to reproduce itself so efficiently while ravaging the cells of the host organism?!


Yeah, meet the "laws of nature" . Don't take them personally.

For if there were a "personal" force behind the "marvelous design" of, say, AIDS and deadly flu viruses, or any other plague-causing microorganisms then I'd really have quite a few really nasty things to say against such a sick, evil-minded "designer"..

It seems to me that unbelievers enjoy flouting their unbelief.

Since some seem to be confused about how a very good world began to become corrupted, perhaps they need to take the explanation in Genesis more seriously.

But again, I am sure that they will not do this unless or until they are willing to humble themselves and ask for God's forgiveness for their many sins.

As Jesus once said "repent and be saved".

BTW, I will continue posting once a day the evidence that backs up my assertion that the perceived sophistication and design of the cell grows daily with each new scientific discovery.

 

[Johnny]

BTW, I will continue posting once a day the evidence that backs up my assertion that the perceived sophistication and design of the cell grows daily with each new scientific discovery.

I don't think it is necessary to back up your assertion as I don't believe you'll find too many dissenters.

 

[Unbeliever]

It seems to me that unbelievers enjoy flouting their unbelief.

Not unlike believers that like to flout their gullibility.

Since some seem to be confused about how a very good world began to become corrupted, perhaps they need to take the explanation in Genesis more seriously.

Genesis is the myth of ignorant nomads. Why would we take it seriously? And if this good world did become corrupted, it just means that your god did a poor job creating it.

But again, I am sure that they will not do this unless or until they are willing to humble themselves and ask for God's forgiveness for their many sins.

Are you willing to humble yourself and ask Allah into your life? No? Well then you know how I feel.

As Jesus once said "repent and be saved".

What do the alleged statements of semi-mythical people have to do with the complexity of the cell?

BTW, I will continue posting once a day the evidence that backs up my assertion that the perceived sophistication and design of the cell grows daily with each new scientific discovery.

Please do. No one here is disagreeing that we are learning new things everyday about the cell. We disagree about whether or not we should just give up understanding it and admit that your god is responsible for it. Please, please go read about an argument from personal incredulity.

 

[bob b]

I don't think it is necessary to back up your assertion as I don't believe you'll find too many dissenters.

Only among atheists. Bonus posting follows.

New Function Discovered for Human Brain Glia Cells 01/29/2001
Glia cells, which make up 90% of the human brain, are not as functionless as earlier believed, according to a story in the journal ScienceNOW 26 January 2001: 1 .They play an important role in determining how many connections the neurons can make with each other.

The more we learn about life, the more we discover function and design. So-called junk DNA may be the next. God don’t make no junk.

 

[mighty_duck]

Originally Posted by bob b
BTW, I will continue posting once a day the evidence that backs up my assertion that the perceived sophistication and design of the cell grows daily with each new scientific discovery.

Originally Posted by Johnny
I don't think it is necessary to back up your assertion as I don't believe you'll find too many dissenters.

Only among atheists.

I challange you to find one atheist on this site who doesn't agree with you that we are finding cells to be more sophisticated the more we research them. Just one. Should be easy, right?

How you get from the sophisitication of modern cells to YHVH creating the world in six days is the real mystery...

 

[Johnny]

Only among atheists. Bonus posting follows.

Can you back this up? Do you have a cite? Quote?

 

[Jukia]

Only among atheists. Bonus posting follows.

New Function Discovered for Human Brain Glia Cells 01/29/2001
Glia cells, which make up 90% of the human brain, are not as functionless as earlier believed, according to a story in the journal ScienceNOW 26 January 2001: 1 .They play an important role in determining how many connections the neurons can make with each other.

The more we learn about life, the more we discover function and design. So-called junk DNA may be the next. God don’t make no junk.

Perhaps we discover "function" but that does not equal "design".

 

[bob b]

Gentlemen, Start Your Engines 01/23/2001
The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences describe more findings about our amazing molecular motor, ATP Synthase (a complex enzyme that won its elucidators the 1997 Nobel Prize). Your body has trillions of these tiny motors in the mitochondria of cells. Each motor is 200,000 times smaller than a pinhead, and rotates at 6000 RPM, generating three ATP molecules per revolution (if these motors stopped, you would be dead before you hit the floor). The motor is reversible and can be used as a proton pump. ATP is the energy currency of every living thing. An active person can generate his/her body weight in ATP in a day’s time. Today’s report describes more details of the rotor and stator, and contains color diagrams of these amazing molecular machines on which all life, even bacteria, depends.
In Michael Behe’s terminology, these motors are “irreducibly complex” and would never arise by gradual evolution. The complexity of the cell was never dreamed of in Darwin’s day, and discoveries like this are straining the credibility of the evolutionary myth beyond the breaking point. Truly we are fearfully and wonderfully made!

Satoshi P. Tsunoda, Robert Aggeler, Masasuke Yoshida, and Roderick A. Capaldi
Rotation of the c subunit oligomer in fully functional F1Fo ATP synthase
PNAS published January 23, 2001, 10.1073/pnas.031564198

 

[Jukia]

Calling something a molecular machine does not automatically mean Goddidit or that it is irreducibly complex.
But that does not fit with the theology of many who post here and therefore---Goddidit.

 

[Stripe]

those who promote evolution by mutation and natural selection fall victim to the maths implied by bobs postings. each instance of newly discovered functionality adds more work for the theory of evolution to cater for in its short time of operation.

 

[bob b]

Protein Folding Regulated by Quality Control 02/20/2001
The upcoming Feb. 29 issue of the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society is devoted to protein folding and disease. As we reported earlier, it has been discovered that cells have chaperones that supervise and proofread the folding of amino acid chains of which proteins are composed. In the preface to this edition of the Transactions, the editors speak of the quality control processes of the cell, stating that “Failure to satisfy the quality control process, particularly by proteins resulting from genetic mutations, is associated with a wide range of diseases including cystic fibrosis and diabetes.” (Normally, misfolded proteins are “rigorously excluded” from the cell.) “And because it is so strongly linked to fundamental cellular activities, any aberrations in the folding process will lead to malfunctioning of the organism involved, and hence to disease.”

This is why it is so disingenuous for evolutionists to glibly talk about building blocks of life forming naturally à la Miller-type experiments. Cells are much, much more than building blocks or aggregates of organic molecules: they have central storage of information and detailed processes for carrying out instructions and correcting mistakes. Without these, life could not exist. Considering how precise the quality controls must still be maintained in this cursed, mutating world, Dr. Joseph Henson used to say, “The surprising thing is not that we get sick, but that we are ever well.”