Casey Anthony Trial Exposes Justice System

[CabinetMaker]

Then why the out of control crime epidemic?

Because the Police system is a bit overwhelmed. Once they get into the courts the system works the way it was designed. Having sat on a jury, the people that are on juries take their responsibility seriously and make their decision based on what the judge says the law is. If the evidence fits the law then people will convict. If the evidence doesn't fit they must acquit (sorry, couldn't resist).

Its getting people to the courts that's the hard part. In the bast year I have been robbed twice, once when the house was broken into and once when I was stupid (internet scam). I reported both to the police and within a week of reporting them the police responded that they were closing the case due to lack of evidence. Unless the value of stolen items in in the 100's of thousands police don't even bother to investigate. The police system is probably a bit more broken than the court system.

 

[lightbringer]

The system works! :darwinsm:

Great chart..if all you wanted to know is the ratio of black/white prison admission?

 

[Granite]

Because the Police system is a bit overwhelmed. Once they get into the courts the system works the way it was designed. Having sat on a jury, the people that are on juries take their responsibility seriously and make their decision based on what the judge says the law is. If the evidence fits the law then people will convict. If the evidence doesn't fit they must acquit (sorry, couldn't resist).

Its getting people to the courts that's the hard part. In the bast year I have been robbed twice, once when the house was broken into and once when I was stupid (internet scam). I reported both to the police and within a week of reporting them the police responded that they were closing the case due to lack of evidence. Unless the value of stolen items in in the 100's of thousands police don't even bother to investigate. The police system is probably a bit more broken than the court system.

Well with all due respect, they probably do have bigger fish to fry. It also depends on where you live; around my neck of the woods, a gas station hold up is major news, and the guy who did it will probably be caught in 24-48 hours. In a larger metropolitan area? Forget it.

 

[Stripe]

Because the Police system is a bit overwhelmed. Once they get into the courts the system works the way it was designed. Having sat on a jury, the people that are on juries take their responsibility seriously and make their decision based on what the judge says the law is. If the evidence fits the law then people will convict. If the evidence doesn't fit they must acquit (sorry, couldn't resist).

Its getting people to the courts that's the hard part. In the bast year I have been robbed twice, once when the house was broken into and once when I was stupid (internet scam). I reported both to the police and within a week of reporting them the police responded that they were closing the case due to lack of evidence. Unless the value of stolen items in in the 100's of thousands police don't even bother to investigate. The police system is probably a bit more broken than the court system.

Well with all due respect, they probably do have bigger fish to fry. It also depends on where you live; around my neck of the woods, a gas station hold up is major news, and the guy who did it will probably be caught in 24-48 hours. In a larger metropolitan area? Forget it.

Are these arguments to counter the idea that the system is broken? :AMR:

 

[CabinetMaker]

Well with all due respect, they probably do have bigger fish to fry.

Big is a relative term. What I lost in the burglary was easily replaced by insurance for a few thousand dollars. If I had had to pay that out of pocket, that would be a fair chunk of change. On the other side of that coin, the total taken by any single individual robbing homes begins to add up until they become a fairly big fish. Its the phone book effect. Any one single robbery is represented by tearing on page of a phone book in half - insignificant. But add enough of those pages together and it becomes quite significant to tear a whole book in half.

It also depends on where you live; around my neck of the woods, a gas station hold up is major news, and the guy who did it will probably be caught in 24-48 hours. In a larger metropolitan area? Forget it.

I fully agree. Sad but true. In large metropolitan areas I am just cynical enough to believe that the majority of the police force is focused on revenue generation (traffic tickets, parking tickets and so on) over investigating and solving crimes (particularly theft).

 

[CabinetMaker]

Are these arguments to counter the idea that the system is broken? :AMR:

Oh, I don't know that the system is broken so much as it has become to big to function efficiently. It works the way it was designed to work its just that the ratio of law breakers to law enforcement is grossly skewed in favor of the law breakers.

Given the number of people in the world, what do you think would be a better system?

 

[Town Heretic]

Then why the out of control crime epidemic?

Actually crime has been mostly moving the other way here in the states. Cab gave a good answer in part, but I'd like to add to it that what you need to examine is the relation between poverty, poor education and crime. If you want to minimize the worst of human nature you have to significantly address those.

To address Sod's inadvertent contribution, race and poverty are an interesting study as well.

The system works! :darwinsm:

Agreed. Your opinion is mostly worth laughing at, but at least you got to drag race into this. So that's something for you. lain:

Else, you suck at ignoring. On you it mostly looks like a giant skirt.

 

[Stripe]

Oh, I don't know that the system is broken so much as it has become to big to function efficiently. It works the way it was designed to work its just that the ratio of law breakers to law enforcement is grossly skewed in favor of the law breakers.

Sounds like the same thing to me. :chuckle:

Given the number of people in the world, what do you think would be a better system?

Justice should teach people right from wrong. That way the number of people it has to cater to is irrelevant.

When parents have one child they are able to watch closely and to curb his tendencies. When parents have seven children they need a system that will work without constant surveillance.

 

[Town Heretic]

To put a number on it, from CNN:

"It's becoming a familiar story and a welcome one: Violent crime continues to decline.

FBI figures released Monday show overall violent crime in the United States during 2010 declined 5.5% compared with the previous year. That's slightly more than the 5.3% decline the FBI found in its report for 2009.

The report for 2010 released Monday shows murders declined 4.4%, rapes dropped 4.2%, robberies were down 9.5%, and aggravated assaults were down 3.6%."​

 

[CabinetMaker]

Sounds like the same thing to me. :chuckle:


Justice should teach people right from wrong. That way the number of people it has to cater to is irrelevant.

Its not that people don't know right from wrong, its that they don't care. The reasons they don't care are as many as there are people. If they didn't know right from wrong, if they didn't know the police would arrest them for doing wrong then they wouldn't try so hard not to get caught by "the system".

When parents have one child they are able to watch closely and to curb his tendencies. When parents have seven children they need a system that will work without constant surveillance.

Laws are not that system. A law can only punish misbehavior, it CANNOT prevent it.

 

[Nick M]

. . . the system gets it right far more often than the system gets it wrong.

:rotfl:

 

[some other dude]

. . . :baby: . . .

. . . the system gets it right far more often than the system gets it wrong.

Apply that standard of acceptance to any other system.

Airlines?
"We get you to the correct destination far more often than we send you somewhere you don't want to go!"

Automobile manufacturing?
"Our cars don't break down far more often than they do break down!"

Heart surgery?
"Our patients make it out of the OR far more often than they die on the table!"


But when it comes down to people's lives and freedom, pretty good is good enough. eh? :chuckle:

 

[Silent Hunter]

:rotfl:

. . . "laugh it up fuzzball" . . .

The system works. Well into the ninety percentile of people charged plead and deal. The sliver that remains contains the occasional and tragic exception to a generally just rule.

Like our system of government, it's not without flaw, but it's better than any other and designed to overcome the vast majority of exception and flaw. Some guilty will go free and some innocent will be convicted. So long as human beings are fallible this is bound to happen even with checks and balances and honest efforts all around. We can't design that out of the system, but we should understand, there's no real excuse for not understanding the distinction between that exceptional failure and the historically, objectively established rule.

 

[Stripe]

Actually crime has been mostly moving the other way here in the states.

What are the reasons for that?

you need to examine is the relation between poverty, poor education and crime. If you want to minimize the worst of human nature you have to significantly address those.

Poverty and education doesn't make people bad. It just makes them less capable of avoiding the consequences.

Its not that people don't know right from wrong, its that they don't care. The reasons they don't care are as many as there are people. If they didn't know right from wrong, if they didn't know the police would arrest them for doing wrong then they wouldn't try so hard not to get caught by "the system". Laws are not that system. A law can only punish misbehavior, it CANNOT prevent it.

The law should teach people right from wrong.

 

[Nick M]

. . . "laugh it up fuzzball" . . .

:up:

Han Solo was in the wrong, just like you. :up:

 

[Town Heretic]

What are the reasons for that?

The educated guess is simply the baby boomers getting old. So volume decreases.

Poverty and education doesn't make people bad.

Didn't say they did, only that there's an alarming correlation between them and crime.

It just makes them less capable of avoiding the consequences.
The law should teach people right from wrong.

No. Educated people tend to make better decisions and people with means tend to do less stealing, can by and large obtain what is important to them legally.

 

[Stripe]

The educated guess is simply the baby boomers getting old. So volume decreases.

So the crime rate is out of control.

No. Educated people tend to make better decisions and people with means tend to do less stealing, can by and large obtain what is important to them legally.

Perhaps.

But the key issues here are:

• The justice system doesn't teach right from wrong, and
• The crime rate is out of control

 

[some other dude]

 

[Town Heretic]

So the crime rate is out of control.

Citation to supporting data?

Perhaps.

But the key issues here are:

• The justice system doesn't teach right from wrong, and
• The crime rate is out of control

In order: I don't think it's meant to and I don't know that it's true. Citation?

 

[Stripe]

Citation to supporting data?

You could try the Sydney Morning Herald.

I don't think it's meant to

Galatians 3:24
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.​