Can a Christian lose their salvation

[7djengo7]

My own sins.

What sins? You've been telling us you have no sins. You've been telling us that only non-Christians have sins, and telling us that you are a Christian, and not a non-Christian. So, to whose sins are you referring by your phrase "my own sins"? To what non-Christian's sins are you referring, since (according to you) you have no sins to be referring to by your phrase "my own sins"?

 

[Rodger]

@Rodger, as you may or may not have noticed already, @Hoping is not a Christian, and he admits he has never been saved:

In fact, @Hoping even mocks the truth that he is a sinner in need of being saved, by putting sneer quotes around his word "saved". According to him, he has no need of being saved, and will never be saved, and will never need to be saved, because, according to him, he has never sinned. He imagines that he will be able to lie to God's face at the Great White Throne Of Judgement (the way he lies in this forum to total strangers), and that God will bless him for his brazen, God-blaspheming, lying denial that he is the Christ-hating sinner that he is.

I did not realize that.

So then......why is he involved in a Christian forum?????

Maybe we need to be preaching the gospel to him whenever we can instead of responding to silly questions! (Me)

 

[Rodger]

Our "observations" differ.
BTW, the struggles against sin, from Rom 7, were Paul's narrative of his former life while still in the flesh, and failing to uphold the Law of Moses.
I could give the same narrative as Paul, only I'ld use the catholic's teachings instead of the Law of Moses.

Your responce tells me that you have NO formal Christian education or Bible knowledge. All of your responces are from "Skeptic Blogs".

Pauls' letter to the Romans was written in approx. 55 AD, about 25 years after the death of Jesus. There are NO Scriptures whatsoever to suggest that chapter 7 was written before he was saved. That comes from the mind of a skeptic blogger.

To come to the conclusion that he is speaking of only before he was saved, you'd have to ignore verb tense and other basic rules of interpretation.

It is clear to me that you are not Biblically trained or educated properly. Please allow me to teach you what you really need to know.

My dear friend, Romans 7; Verse 1-6 are a summary of chapter 6. It is the declaration that because Jesus died you have been freed from the worldly ways of sin, that is the word of the law, through the Spirit of God.

The rest of Romans 7 is the self life. You do not see 'Spirit' mentioned once. Instead, I think its, 42 times says things like, 'I, me, myself' are referenced. Paul is outlying the struggle that we have in the Christian life now that we know our eyes have been opened to the sinful nature we once had. We can see that he gets to the end of self when he asks:

"What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?"

So often we as Christians read this section and make allowance for our struggle because, "Paul struggled", but that is a cop out. We ask the same question Paul did just above, but fail to read the answer.

"Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

Jesus is the answer, living out of our own strength is the issue addressed in Romans 7. We know that, "Love never fails." So we can never fail if we are living out of His strength, and by His spirit.

This is where Romans 8 comes in.

We all desire to live in Romans 8, but we don't know how to transition. Romans 8 is the place of living by the Spirit, in surrender and submission to God, and have crucified our self life with Jesus on the cross. Someone else mentioned Philippians 3 where Paul says, "Not that I have obtained all this", Paul lived out of the hope that he had been called to, and he knew that "The one who called him is faithful."

Now my friend......Are YOU saved? Are you born again, a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ OR are you a religious follower of false teachings???? Have you place your entire being into the person of Jesus Christ????

 

[Rodger]

You've lost sight of the context of my quote.
Let's move on.

Agreed.

Isn't it written that He called "us" gods ?
I know Jesus mentioned that somewhere...
When the Word took on flesh, He lost the "God" part of His former self.
He had all the foibles we struggle with today.
He had no "special defense" from temptation except His belief.
Just like the reborn have now.

Jesus was tempted just like we are.
If He had some "magical" defense from temptation, why did the devil keep trying to sway Him ?

Right here I can see that YOU have not trusted Christ and YOU do not understand what you are saying!!

You said.........
"Isn't it written that He called "us" gods ?"

John 10:34.........
“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? ”

If you had done the Bible study you would know that Jesus was being sarcastic in the context when it records "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?". The Jews are about to stone him for claiming to be God; but Jesus seems even more emphatic with the statement adding "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (Jn 10:35-36, KJV).

Then you said...........
"When the Word took on flesh, He lost the "God" part of His former self."

Now allow me to ask you.......Are you a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon???? That is exactly what they would say.
You my friend are totally incorrect! 100% wrong!

Jesus was 100% Man and 100% God. He was the God-Man! The KENOSIS OF CHRIST is proven in the Scriptures.

To say that Jesus surrendered even one divine attribute is to say that Jesus is less than God, and therefore not God at all! See, if God is deprived of even one attribute, then He is not fully deity. Of course references to his deity abound in Scripture in John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Col. 2:9; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8 just to name a few! And by the way, this is not only affirmed by the Bible, it’s clearly affirmed by the creeds.

 

[Rodger]

Can you not make the connection between Jesus' "fig trees not bearing grapes and grape vines not bearing figs" with "God's seed not bring forth the fruit of the devil" ?
The seed dictates what kind of fruit something can bear.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot be liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers.

I really don't think "the Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)" was ever Pentecostal.
But I suppose that depends on your definition of Pentecostal.

"Saved" will occur when your name is found in the book of life on the day of judgement.
Converted would be a better word for you there.
And if converted, why do the things one has converted from ?

You don't really put much stock in rebirth, do you ?

Point out the sin, or leave that line of accusation.

Except it seems I am the only one whose repentance from sin was true.

Repentance from sin and rebirth will fix that.

It is written..."Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth." (John 9:31)
And..."For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (1 Peter 3:12)
God will forgive sinners when they actually do turn from sin.
Until then, your soul is in great danger.

If YOU would like to ask ONE question at a time, I would be more than happy to answer. However, at my age I just can not respond to 6 or 7 questions all strung together.

Try again........ONE at a time.

So then I will answer your 1st one here when you asked.............
"I really don't think "the Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)" was ever Pentecostal."

The Charismatic Pentacostal denomination began in approx. 1900.
They believe in a spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit which is evidenced by the reception of "the charismata," or supernatural gifts that are given by the Holy Spirit, especially speaking in tongues, prophecy, and healing. Pentecostals affirm that the dramatic spiritual gifts of the original first-century Pentecost, as described in Acts 2, are still poured out on Christians today.

Of course, there is NO Scriptural support for any of this and actually the Scripture says that all of those things have ended when the Bible was completed.

 

[Rodger]

No, not me.

Paul.



I am saying that believers do not receive their glorified bodies until Christ returns.

That means our sin nature will not be done away with until then.



You think "those in Christ" are God?

That's what you just said.



Saying it doesn't make it so.

Paul said they do, that it's a constant battle between



Adam was created perfect, and yet he still sinned.

Was Adam not "born of God"?



Says the one posing as someone who no longer sins, pretending he has a glorified body which will not be given until Christ's return...



Even according to your doctrine, you think that people who truly believe have "a remission of sins," and you support it with verses such as Matthew 26:28, Mark 1:4, Luke 1:77, 3:3, 24:47, and so forth.

But here's the thing: "remission" doesn't mean elimination, or a guarantee that you will not sin. It means a reduction.

People with cancer who are being treated want the cancer to go into remission. It doesn't mean that the cancer goes away completely, they still have to get regular checkups to make sure it stays in remission, but they are not cured by any means.

The analogy applies to sin quite well.

However, the difference between those who receive the remission of sin, and those who are saved by grace, is that cancer doesn't affect those who are dead.

Spiritually speaking, someone who is crucified with Christ has his account wiped clean, all of his crimes have been paid for.

The problem is that you've taken what is meant spiritually, and tried to apply it literally to the physical. Just because our accounts have been wiped clean doesn't mean we will no longer commit sin.



No one said it was. In fact, I've said the opposite. Those who place their trust in Christ are saved. Period. They cannot be plucked out of God's hand. If someone never truly placed their trust in Christ, but simply went through the motions, they are not saved, and will fall away. They were never in God's hand to begin with.

That has nothing to do with whether a Christian, one who is actually saved, sins or not. To say it is is conflation, and only results in confusion.

Just because someone stops walking in the Spirit doesn't mean that God has not saved them.

Otherwise you make God out to be a liar, because He said those who believe, who have placed their trust in Christ, He will save. Those who do not believe, who do not place their trust in Christ, He will not save.

Did Peter constantly look at Jesus when Jesus told him to step out of the boat onto the water? Was Peter's goal after stepping out onto the water ever NOT Christ?

What happened to Peter when he focused on the wind rather than Christ? He started to sink, and cried out for Jesus to save him!

Guess what, Christ didn't say "Sorry, you didn't actually trust me, therefore, into the water you go!" No, Jesus reached His hand out and caught him!

THAT'S GRACE!!!

You, on the other hand, think that Peter should have gone into the water because he "stumbled," by looking away from Christ.



No, I see God's grace as a covering.

Justice demands that my sins be paid for.

Jesus, through His death, burial, and resurrection, has covered me, that I no longer have to pay the penalty, because He has paid it for me. He has literally covered the cost. Not just for my past sins, but for all of my future sins as well. I'm fully covered by his free gift of eternal life, so that even if I sin, and turn away, I will not be plucked out of His hand. I am covered by His grace.

You seem to need the reminder:

Grace is unmerited favor.

Let me repeat that.

Grace.
Is.
Unmerited.
Favor.

Grace is getting something you don't deserve, and mercy is not getting something that you DO deserve.

If I sin, I don't deserve to go to heaven.

But because of God's grace, I will go to heaven regardless of my sin.

That's what it means to be saved! That's what it means to be under grace!



The only "cure" is receiving a new body, without the lusts of the flesh. That will only happen when Christ returns.

You, who are not saved, will not receive a new body. Repent before it's too late.



Fewer people than Herod. In fact, even at the nartyrdom of Stephen, he was just the one holding the cloaks of those who stoned Stephen, being a "young man."



Far more than Paul did.

In fact, it was more than enough to cause God to send an angel to tell Joseph to take Jesus and His mother and flee to Egypt.



We have enough data to know that Paul arrested believing Jews, and was present at the stoning of Stephen.

We have enough data to know that Herod did in fact put to death "all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men."

Based on the evidence, we can determine that Herod murdered more children than Paul murdered people of any age.



Saying it doesn't make it so.



Repeating your position will not automatically make it come true.



And? So what?



Again, the word Paul used supports my position, and does not support yours. The word he used does not mean "greatest." He did not say "I am the greatest sinner."

He used the word that means "first, before, principal, most important," and then used it again in the very next verse to emphasize what he said.

"of whom I am the first"
"That in me first"

And then to even further iterate, he said that he obtained mercy "as a pattern to those who ARE GOING TO BELIEVE"!

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Don't ignore the context of what is being said just because it doesn't agree with what you've been taught.

I have given you two witnesses, lines of evidence, that show that Paul was not saying "I was the greatest sinner," but rather "I was the first sinner saved by grace."



No, it's not.

You do not learn that Christians no longer sin from the Bible.

You learned that from someone who did not rightly divide, be that you or someone else.



"All" in the Bible hardly ever means woodenly literally "all."



Romans 7.



"Rebirth" has nothing to do with the Body of Christ.

It is a term used ONLY in the context of Israel and her covenant relationship with God.



Yes, because the law is undergirded with Grace.

Were it not for God looking forwards to the death of His Son, no one could have come into a relationship with Him, before or after Paul.



Moses did not circumcise, and God nearly killed him for it.

So yes, Israel needed the law.

If one did not keep the law, they were to be cut off from the rest of the nation.



So the gifts and callings of God are revokable?



Then why do you try to put Christians under a law?



Right, because love is the commitment to the good of someone.

Jesus is committed to the good of His Father and of the Holy Spirit, and likewise for the Father and for the Holy Spirit.



Christians will obtain their new bodies at the second coming of Christ, at the Rapture, 1 Corinthians 15:52.

You, who claim to have already received your new body, but have not, will not receive your new body, because you are not saved.

God has set before you, this day, life and death.

Therefore, CHOOSE LIFE, that you may live!

Holy Cow!.......Really long post!

Do you think he read all of that???

Try this........Are You saved?.....Why do you think that?

 

[Right Divider]

Holy Cow!.......Really long post!

Do you think he read all of that???

Try this........Are You saved?.....Why do you think that?

Hoping has already said that he does not know whether he is saved or not.
He says that he will not know until judgment.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So then......why is he involved in a Christian forum?????

We do allow non-Christians to post on TOL, provided they follow the rules.

Maybe we need to be preaching the gospel to him whenever we

Been doing that.

Holy Cow!.......Really long post!

Yup. I consider myself to be one of the heavy hitters on this board these days.

Do you think he read all of that???

I know for a fact that he didn't.

Try this........Are You saved?.....Why do you think that?

He's not. He's said as much.

Hence why I've been preaching the gospel to him.

 

[Hoping]

Yeah you did, you Christ-hating liar. You've been saying you're a Christian, and you've been saying that no Christian has ever sinned.

Men aren't born as Christians.
It is something they choose to commit to.
I never said I had never committed sins.
If I hadn't sinned, I would have nothing to repent of.

Your major premise: Every Christian is someone who has never sinned.​

If a man's repentance from sin is true, he will never commit another sin.
More sin would manifest that the repentance was a lie to God.

Your minor premise: @Hoping is a Christian.​

Conclusion: @Hoping is someone who has never sinned.​

As your first point was erroneous, so too is the conclusion.

When a believer of the gospel converts to Christianity, he turns from sin and unto God, who provides all we require to remain in submission to Him.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Rodger]

We do allow non-Christians to post on TOL, provided they follow the rules.



Been doing that.



Yup. I consider myself to be one of the heavy hitters on this board these days.



I know for a fact that he didn't.



He's not. He's said as much.

Hence why I've been preaching the gospel to him.

Good to know and thanks for telling me. I will try to do the same thing.

 

[Hoping]

Please define "act like Christians". Show us in the Bible someone who you'd say "acted like Christians", and tell us exactly of what you'd say his or her "acting like Christians" consisted.

He is one who loves God with his whole heart, soul, might and strength.
And he loves his neighbor as he loves himself.
Jesus answered the scribe this way..."And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question." (Mark 12:28-34)

Paul said it this way..."Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Rom 13:8-14)

As for someone in the bible acting like a Christian...Just look at all that Jesus did.
And Stephen.
Both asked God to forgive their killers.

 

[Hoping]

Hoping has already said that he does not know whether he is saved or not.
He says that he will not know until judgment.

As salvation will be determined on the last day, I still have to uphold my beliefs/faith until then.
What I think of myself today may change in ten years.

 

[Hoping]

What sins? You've been telling us you have no sins. You've been telling us that only non-Christians have sins, and telling us that you are a Christian, and not a non-Christian. So, to whose sins are you referring by your phrase "my own sins"? To what non-Christian's sins are you referring, since (according to you) you have no sins to be referring to by your phrase "my own sins"?

Having no new sins is the result of repenting from sin.
Cleanliness is the product of the washing away of past sins by the blood of Christ at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Rodger]

As salvation will be determined on the last day, I still have to uphold my beliefs/faith until then.
What I think of myself today may change in ten years.

How very sad I feel for you. I do not know you but I can see through your postings that you are troubled and totally un-Biblically taught.

My friend........The Bible says that your sins were judged when Jesus died for you. He took upon Himself YOUR sins. His death and resurrection paid for your sin so that now you are justified by faith in the gospel.

Salvation is not something you wait around for. It is NOW!

The Bible says that Christians DO NOT go through the Judgment Day!!!! Jesus already did that for YOU!

Are you a saved man? Have you trusted Jesus as the Christ?

1 John 5:13...........
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life."
And what are "these things" that the Apostle John has written so that we may be assured? Woven all throughout this epistle is love. Having received the love of God demonstrated for us and to us in Christ Jesus we love God in return (we love God because He first loved us) and the way that we have been given to express our love for God is to love our neighbor.

Do you think that God was lieing when He had John write those words. That is what it comes down to!

 

[Hoping]

Your responce tells me that you have NO formal Christian education or Bible knowledge. All of your responces are from "Skeptic Blogs".

I've never heard of them/that.

Pauls' letter to the Romans was written in approx. 55 AD, about 25 years after the death of Jesus. There are NO Scriptures whatsoever to suggest that chapter 7 was written before he was saved. That comes from the mind of a skeptic blogger.

I agree.
But in chapter 7, he revisits his old life style, living in the flesh and not in the Spirit.
He recounts his failures to keep the Law and laments his inabilities.
But at the end of chapter 7, he tells how he escaped all of it.

To come to the conclusion that he is speaking of only before he was saved, you'd have to ignore verb tense and other basic rules of interpretation.

Verse 5 says..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
"In the flesh" is from his past.
Ours too, hopefully.

It is clear to me that you are not Biblically trained or educated properly. Please allow me to teach you what you really need to know.

I'll look at it.
Then I will ask you the fruit of your learnings.

My dear friend, Romans 7; Verse 1-6 are a summary of chapter 6. It is the declaration that because Jesus died you have been freed from the worldly ways of sin, that is the word of the law, through the Spirit of God.

Then being free from sin shouldn't be a strange concept to you...right ?

The rest of Romans 7 is the self life. You do not see 'Spirit' mentioned once. Instead, I think its, 42 times says things like, 'I, me, myself' are referenced. Paul is outlying the struggle that we have in the Christian life now that we know our eyes have been opened to the sinful nature we once had. We can see that he gets to the end of self when he asks:

He didn't mention "Spirit" because he was lamenting his past in the flesh.

"What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?"
So often we as Christians read this section and make allowance for our struggle because, "Paul struggled", but that is a cop out. We ask the same question Paul did just above, but fail to read the answer.

It is a cop-out, as his lament was answered in Rom 6:6.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,..."
The "wretched man" is gone.

"Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Jesus is the answer, living out of our own strength is the issue addressed in Romans 7. We know that, "Love never fails." So we can never fail if we are living out of His strength, and by His spirit.

Agreed, and His strength enables us to live without ever committing another sin.

This is where Romans 8 comes in.
We all desire to live in Romans 8, but we don't know how to transition. Romans 8 is the place of living by the Spirit, in surrender and submission to God, and have crucified our self life with Jesus on the cross. Someone else mentioned Philippians 3 where Paul says, "Not that I have obtained all this", Paul lived out of the hope that he had been called to, and he knew that "The one who called him is faithful."

What Paul said he had not yet obtained in Phil 3:11, was the resurrection from the dead; and in Phil 3:21, his new vessel.

You forgot to mention Rom 7:23's "law of sin which is in my members" that Paul also lamented.
That fleshly, former problem, was remedied with Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Now my friend......Are YOU saved? Are you born again, a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ OR are you a religious follower of false teachings???? Have you place your entire being into the person of Jesus Christ????

I live a life that I pray will garner salvation on the day of judgement.
And I thank God for providing everything I need to do just that.
My repentance form sin is genuine.
The Holy Spirit within me helps me shun false, sin accommodating, doctrines.
Some would call that "saved", but I call it "converted".
I will not usurp the Lord's judgement, which I will hear on the last day.
I gotta' keep walking as Christ walked until my last breath, or my life will have bene wasted.

 

[Rodger]

Having no new sins is the result of repenting from sin.
Cleanliness is the product of the washing away of past sins by the blood of Christ at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

I really hate to keep telling you that Biblically, you are wrong. That sounds judgmental and I do not like doing that, however I do not know how else to say it to you.

True Christians are those who admit they are sinners. When we do sin, God asks us to admit we sinned.

Have you read 1 John 1:1-2.............
"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. "

My friens, that is exactly what you are doing!

Confession is not seeking forgiveness. ......it is an admission of guilt. Christians are already forgiven (Colossians 2:13). Confession is simply agreeing that we sinned. Then we need to repent or forsake or stop doing the sin. It has been said that to repent is to turn around and go in the opposite direction. 2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:24; 1Thessalonians 3:13.

I beg of you to Thank Him for His mercy and grace and If you have never trusted in Jesus for the forgiveness of YOUR sins, please do it now!

Secondly, How can you think that there is more saving power in dirty water than in the blood of God?????

Again.....you are ignoring the clear Word of God where He says that Salvation is a gift, and NOT OF WOKS so that you will boast".

Water Baptism is you doing something in addition to what Jesus Christ did for you!

 

[Rodger]

I've never heard of them/that.

I agree.
But in chapter 7, he revisits his old life style, living in the flesh and not in the Spirit.
He recounts his failures to keep the Law and laments his inabilities.
But at the end of chapter 7, he tells how he escaped all of it.

Verse 5 says..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
"In the flesh" is from his past.
Ours too, hopefully.

I'll look at it.
Then I will ask you the fruit of your learnings.

Then being free from sin shouldn't be a strange concept to you...right ?

He didn't mention "Spirit" because he was lamenting his past in the flesh.

It is a cop-out, as his lament was answered in Rom 6:6.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,..."
The "wretched man" is gone.

Agreed, and His strength enables us to live without ever committing another sin.

What Paul said he had not yet obtained in Phil 3:11, was the resurrection from the dead; and in Phil 3:21, his new vessel.

You forgot to mention Rom 7:23's "law of sin which is in my members" that Paul also lamented.
That fleshly, former problem, was remedied with Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

I live a life that I pray will garner salvation on the day of judgement.
And I thank God for providing everything I need to do just that.
My repentance form sin is genuine.
The Holy Spirit within me helps me shun false, sin accommodating, doctrines.
Some would call that "saved", but I call it "converted".
I will not usurp the Lord's judgement, which I will hear on the last day.
I gotta' keep walking as Christ walked until my last breath, or my life will have bene wasted.

Again........2nd time. Please post ONE thing you want me to respond to.

I will respond to your 1st thing said which was.............
"But in chapter 7, he revisits his old life style, living in the flesh and not in the Spirit."

That is simply not true in any way.

The key to understanding Romans 7 is Paul’s description of the two natures of a Christian. Prior to salvation, we have only one nature—the sin nature. But once we come to Christ, we are new creations in Christ, but we still LIVE in the old flesh which has the remains of the sinful nature within it. These two natures war constantly with one another, continually pulling the believer in opposite directions.

The apostle Paul puts into practical language the fact that he is a redeemed sinner who still has a carnal body, just like YOU and ME and our flesh that wars against the indwelling Spirit.

You seem to not know that Paul in 1 Timothy says, “.......
"That Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the chief”.

The personal pronouns in these passages are not just an artifice but a statement of reality of his life after he was saved and the honest evaluation of a man who examines himself in the light of who he is and who our Lord Jesus is and comes to the conclusion that he is a wretched man in need of deliverance. This is not the deliverance from the penalty of sin—that was paid for on the cross—but deliverance from the power of sin.

 

[Hoping]

Right here I can see that YOU have not trusted Christ and YOU do not understand what you are saying!!
You said.........
"Isn't it written that He called "us" gods ?"
John 10:34.........
“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? ”

If you had done the Bible study you would know that Jesus was being sarcastic in the context when it records "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?". The Jews are about to stone him for claiming to be God; but Jesus seems even more emphatic with the statement adding "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (Jn 10:35-36, KJV).

Then it was probably easy for you to see my own "sarcasm" with my answer to the question of "Are you God"?

Then you said...........
"When the Word took on flesh, He lost the "God" part of His former self."
Now allow me to ask you.......Are you a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon???? That is exactly what they would say.
You my friend are totally incorrect! 100% wrong!

Wouldn't God know the day the earth will end ?
Jesus didn't know.
Wouldn't God know who will sit on the Lord's right and left in the end?
Jesus didn't know.
He gave up some of His former abilities when the Word took on the flesh to live among us.
It is written in 1 Cor 15:28 though, that one day God and Jesus will be one again.
Just as God and the Word once were.

BTW, both the groups you mentioned are false religions.
They both tolerate/accommodate sin.

Jesus was 100% Man and 100% God. He was the God-Man! The KENOSIS OF CHRIST is proven in the Scriptures.

To say that Jesus surrendered even one divine attribute is to say that Jesus is less than God, and therefore not God at all! See, if God is deprived of even one attribute, then He is not fully deity.

Why would you think that ?
I see no loss of the Word's deity because of His choice to taste death for all men.
I see only love.

Of course references to his deity abound in Scripture in John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Col. 2:9; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8 just to name a few! And by the way, this is not only affirmed by the Bible, it’s clearly affirmed by the creeds.

Creeds are of men, beware of them.

 

[Hoping]

If YOU would like to ask ONE question at a time, I would be more than happy to answer. However, at my age I just can not respond to 6 or 7 questions all strung together.

Try again........ONE at a time.

So then I will answer your 1st one here when you asked.............
"I really don't think "the Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)" was ever Pentecostal."

That wasn't a question.

The Charismatic Pentacostal denomination began in approx. 1900.
They believe in a spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit which is evidenced by the reception of "the charismata," or supernatural gifts that are given by the Holy Spirit, especially speaking in tongues, prophecy, and healing. Pentecostals affirm that the dramatic spiritual gifts of the original first-century Pentecost, as described in Acts 2, are still poured out on Christians today.

It is a shame they don't believe the rest of what is written.
Like that they could stop sinning.

Of course, there is NO Scriptural support for any of this and actually the Scripture says that all of those things have ended when the Bible was completed.

You may be unaware of the twelve at Ephesus' experience in Acts 19:5-7..."When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve."

It is still happening today, but only with a real repentance from sin.

 

[Hoping]

Roger:
1st question..."Can you not make the connection between Jesus' "fig trees not bearing grapes and grape vines not bearing figs" with "God's seed not bring forth the fruit of the devil" ?
The seed dictates what kind of fruit something can bear.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot be liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers.