Can a Christian lose their salvation

[Idolater]

Paul says there is no sin in Christ. I am dead to sin. I am not under the law. Hence, the contradiction.

He says you're dead to sin which means DON'T SIN. That's obv. He says don't sin so many different times in so many different ways it's as if he forgot about just tell us plainly (he didn't, but it's almost like he did). It doesn't matter, because what does Jesus mean when He says to the Apostles, "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." It doesn't mean they have the power of baptism, baptism forgives sins, period, apart from the Apostles, and baptism doesn't retain sins. The writer to the Hebrews knew this, why else would he write, "it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance" if he knew the Apostles could remit sins?

 

[Right Divider]

Baptism is about IDENTIFICATION.

To be "baptized into" something is to be identified by it.

For the body of Christ there is ONE baptism and it's NOT water.

Here it is:

1Cor 12:12-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. (12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. ​

​

​

 

[Idolater]

You have to be baptized COMPLETELY, yes:

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

 

[Right Divider]

You have to be baptized COMPLETELY, yes:

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Made up.

We have ONE baptism and it has nothing to do with Israel's water baptism.

The TWELVE apostles will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
That has nothing to do with the BODY OF CHRIST.

 

[Idolater]

Made up.

We have ONE baptism and it has nothing to do with Israel's water baptism.

The TWELVE apostles will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
That has nothing to do with the BODY OF CHRIST.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them;

 

[Idolater]

It's just a complete baptism, that's what being sealed by the Holy Spirit is. Same thing.

 

[Right Divider]

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them;

That was NOT the baptism by one spirit that Paul is talking about.

Your lack of right division is quite common in Churchianity.

 

[Right Divider]

It's just a complete baptism, that's what being sealed by the Holy Spirit is. Same thing.

The Bible never uses the term "complete baptism". That is just some nonsense that you (or someone that you follow) invented.

Baptism by one spirit into the body of Christ is COMPLETE.

 

[Idolater]

That was NOT the baptism by one spirit that Paul is talking about.

And yet "the Holy Ghost came on them" when Paul was completed with them. Weird coincidence.

The Bible never uses the term "complete baptism".

It doesn't have to. It never uses the term Trinity or Triune or Three Persons either.

That is just some nonsense that you (or someone that you follow) invented.

Baptism by one spirit into the body of Christ is COMPLETE.

Yeah, when one is sealed by the Holy Spirit, just as Paul even says.

 

[Right Divider]

And yet "the Holy Ghost came on them" when Paul was completed with them. Weird coincidence.

Not the same terminology.... I see people try that dishonest ploy all the time.

It doesn't have to. It never uses the term Trinity or Triune or Three Persons either.

It's not just that the term is not used... the concept is also not there.

Yeah, when one is sealed by the Holy Spirit, just as Paul even says.

No water involved.

 

[Idolater]

Not the same terminology.... I see people try that dishonest ploy all the time.

Weird coincidence I guess.

It's not just that the term is not used... the concept is also not there.

Paul mentions being sealed by the Holy Spirit more than once. That's confirmation, it's the completion of Baptism, and is demonstrated in Acts 8 and Acts 19 as I showed above.

No water involved.

I don't see any reason to accept that based on Scripture alone. Baptism means washing. Washing means water. Being washed by the Holy Spirit is part of complete Christian Baptism.

 

[Right Divider]

Weird coincidence I guess.

It's not a "weird coincidence", it's you making a false equivocation.

Paul mentions being sealed by the Holy Spirit more than once. That's confirmation, it's the completion of Baptism, and is demonstrated in Acts 8 and Acts 19 as I showed above.

Utter nonsense. The entrance into the body of Christ by spirit baptism is instantaneous and complete! It is NOT a process that starts and then needs some more process to complete.

I don't see any reason to accept that based on Scripture alone.

That's because you're a confused religionist.

Baptism means washing.

No, it does NOT! Again, your religionist nonsense is just plain FALSE.

Washing means water.

Since your original premise is FALSE, your conclusion is also FALSE.

Being washed by the Holy Spirit is part of complete Christian Baptism.

Religionist baloney!

Baptism by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ is completely DRY!

 

[Right Divider]

Paul mentions being sealed by the Holy Spirit more than once. That's confirmation, it's the completion of Baptism, and is demonstrated in Acts 8 and Acts 19 as I showed above.

Acts 8 is NOT related to the body of Christ in any way.

Acts 8 is simply a continuation of God's dealings with the nation of Israel and God's plans for the earth. Philip was one of the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

I would try to explain Acts 19 to you, but I'm certain that you cannot understand it.

 

[Nick M]

He says don't sin so many different times

Here is your hang up. Paul is talking about the noun, sin. Which condemns you. You are carnally minded, that doesn't mean a porn addict, it means your mind is on the performance of the flesh. You are to reckon yourself dead to sin. If you refuse, that is on you.

 

[Nick M]

He says you're dead to sin which means DON'T SIN.

It means you can't. Even if you act in an immoral way. I am not suggesting you act in an immoral way. It is no longer sin. I know he implores people to change their filthy ways. That is not his message. Water baptism, such as the river Jordan is in fact a ceremonial cleansing. Where they are completely submerged. It is a cleansing because they are under the curse of Adam, death and sin. This is not baptism of the Holy Spirit, or baptism BY the Holy Spirit. Today we only have one. And John's baptism won't get it done for you. At least some of the "protestants" that you call them admit it is an outward expression. They are still wrong, but they know it is not part of salvation. But to an Israelite, it is.

 

[Nick M]

Notice how he has no answer and redirects when Paul says you are dead to sin, not under the law but under grace? And immediately runs to the condemnation of the red letters and the law. Every time on TOL.

 

[Idolater]

Here is your hang up. Paul is talking about the noun, sin. Which condemns you. You are carnally minded, that doesn't mean a porn addict, it means your mind is on the performance of the flesh. You are to reckon yourself dead to sin. If you refuse, that is on you.

And I'm saying the plainest reading of reckoning yourself dead to sin, is to not sin. If you sin, you are alive to sin, not dead to it.

 

[glorydaz]

And I'm saying the plainest reading of reckoning yourself dead to sin, is to not sin. If you sin, you are alive to sin, not dead to it.

Dead to the penalty and the power of sin. Paul seems to include both. Sin has no more dominion over us.

 

[Nick M]

And I'm saying the plainest reading of reckoning yourself dead to sin, is to not sin.

Clearly you are here to deceive.

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

You don't have a leg to stand on with your works based religion. Paul condemns you right here.

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Paul said it is not possible to sin, when you are under grace. You pervert.

23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.

 

[Idolater]

Dead to the penalty and the power of sin. Paul seems to include both. Sin has no more dominion over us.

So, don't sin. If you sin sin clearly does have at least some dominion over you. That's just plain.