Catholic propaganda does not address the issue. In fact, your link goes to great lengths to alter the true context of scripture.
calling Pope Father.. Jesus used term "Father Abraham"
- Thread starter republicanchick
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Garden gnomes. You are going to argue that kneeling in front of a garden gnome while you pull weeds or turn soil is synomomus to kneeling in front of a statue of Mary with hands folded and reciting the Hale Mary. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths a Catholic will go to to justify that which cannot be justified.
In context, pay attention now Cruciform, we are not call spiritual leaders and teachers father. God has reserved that use of the word exclusively for Himself. We can call our biological fathers father. We can call Abraham father because he fathered a nation. We can say that Edison was the father of the electric light. But if call our pastor or any other church leader father we are doing exactly what God said not to do.
Cruciform
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No doubt you prefer the anti-Catholic propaganda of your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect.
...according to the mere opinion of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, which---as you have already publicly admitted---possesses no binding doctrinal authority whatsoever.
Back to Post #39.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Given that I have only quoted scripture, I find it sad that consider God's Word to be propaganda.
Given that I have only quoted scripture, I find it sad that consider God's Word to posses no binding authority.
By the way Cruc, keeping text in context means including the entire passage as I have done. Your link picks and chooses other versus from scripture to change the meaning of a verse they have taken out of its original context. Your link is a prime example of how not to interpret scripture.
God's Truth
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Cruciform,
Jesus says call no man 'father', and that we are brothers in Christ.
I obey Jesus by not calling any brother in Christ 'father'.
Now tell me how you obey.
Cruciform
New member
Specifically, you quoted a single isolated verse pulled out of its literary and canonical context and tried to apply it against a particular Catholic practice, a tactic which appears to work only so long as you carefully and utterly ignore and avoid the overall context of the passage.
Once again, you conveniently mistake your carefully-crafted non-contextual interpretation/application of a single isolated verse with "God's Word" ITSELF. Don't bother.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
You apparently know as much about biblical exegesis as you do about what Catholics actually believe and teach, which is why your attempted application of Matthew 23:9 is categorically incorrect. Appealing to the rest of the relevant biblical data in order to properly understand a particular contextual passage is known as acknowledging the Canonical Meaning of Scripture, something that even a beginning Bible student ought to know. Tellingly, the only way that you can cling to your glaringly fumbled (mis)interpretation of Matthew 23:9 is to carefully avoid and mindlessly ignore the Canonical Meaning of Scripture---not to mention the immediate context of the very verse under discussion. Thus, it is your mangling of the biblical text which is "a prime example of how not to interpret Scripture." Try again.
Back to this.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
God's Truth
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Jesus says call no man 'father', and that we are brothers in Christ. I obey Jesus by not calling any brother in Christ 'father'. Now tell me how you obey.
Cruciform
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Already decisively answered (Post #49).
God's Truth
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Answer the posts here.
Cruciform
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Post #52
This is a false statement by you. I have quoted both verses and I have quoted them with in the original context in which they were offered. Several times. Your just lying.
There is nothing carefully crafted in my response. Observe:
Here is the context of Exodus 20:4-5
The Ten Commandments 20 And God spoke all these words: 2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. 8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. 12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you. 13 “You shall not murder. 14 “You shall not commit adultery. 15 “You shall not steal. 16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” |
How did I take the verse out of context? God said it as part of the Ten Commandments.
Here is the full context for Matthew 23
Matthew 23New International Version (NIV) A Warning Against Hypocrisy 23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. 8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. |
Again, how did I take the verse out of context? This is Jesus speaking directly to people. I posted the scripture and let it stand for itself.
On the other hand, your link, pulls 17 distinct and sgingle verses out out of context to attempt to make Matthew 23:9 say something else. All but one of your verses are from different chapters and completely different books.
I post scripture as scripture and you say I am taking it out of context. You post 17 distinctly different versus to change the meaning of one verse and have the audacity to accuse me of taking things out of context.
All I can really do to make your post clear is edit it a bit. Then all becomes clear.
As demonstrated in the post above, Catholic exegesis is pathetic.
Cruciform
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Seriously, do you have some type of learning disability? With any biblical interpretation, one must conform to the Canonical Context---that is, that of Scripture as a whole---when interpreting any particular text or passage. Any proposed interpretation must properly account for ALL of the related biblical data on the subject under discussion, not just certain select portions of it. This is 'Biblical Exegesis 101'. Your interpretations inevitably fail to fulfill this requirement, not to mention your failure to account for the immediate literary context itself. So much for my supposed "lying."
You said it.
Again, your recently-invented, man-made sect's interpretation/application of these texts utterly fails to account for the Canonical Context of Scripture, not to mention their immediate literary context.
Again: Canonical Context. :doh:
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
Given that the Catholic Church is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself---and which therefore possesses the very binding doctrinal authority of Christ himself (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15)---the "Catholic Meaning" and the "Canonical Meaning" of Scripture are identical---to have the one is likewise to have the other. (Not so, of course, with your favored recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, which possesses no binding doctrinal authority whatsoever.)
Already answered above.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
MortSullivan
New member
By calling someone "father" or "papa" the ancients were willingly subjugating themselves to the person. Elevating that person to a point of near reverence.
Catholics' worship of the Pope (papa) is the epitome of why Jesus was saying NOT to do that.
Do I need to freak out about it? No. But words do have meaning, and those meanings drive us to action.