California lawmakers seek to end 'personal belief' vaccine exemptions

[elohiym]

like i said - you're a retard

No. I'm a Christian who doesn't put his trust in a vaccine. If I was not a Christian I wouldn't put my trust in vaccines because their need, safety and efficacy is questionable.

too bad for your kids :idunno:

Too bad I don't get them a useless tetanus vaccine to fight the epidemic you fear? :AMR:

Too bad for your kids, dude; the apple doesn't fall from the tree.

 

[elohiym]

Why don't we have polio parties while we're at it? Let's bring that sucker back. Who here doesn't want a polio vaccine?

Between 1955 and 1963 when people were being told vaccines were safe an estimated 10-30 million Americans could have received the Simian Virus 40 (SV40) from contaminated polio vaccine. SV40 has been found in some human cancers. Just knowing those facts, would you get vaccinated with the polio vaccine from the contaminated batch if there were no other polio vaccines available?

 

[resodko]

so you're willing to risk your kids lives with polio, tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella....


what else are you willing to let them die from?

 

[drbrumley]

Knowing as I do as an investigative health journalist that vaccine makers and clinicians have been disingenuous over the safety of vaccines — I discovered a “hot lot” flu vaccine killed over 50,000 elderly Americans in 1993 and the whole fiasco was covered up by public health authorities [NewsWithViews.com Aug 17, 2009] — I am not willing to put my child at undue risk.

Of course, the whole vaccine charade would have been over had that deadly vaccine-induced disaster ever been reported. If they can kill 50,000 helpless Americans right out in the open with a deadly vaccine and get away with it, what else are they hiding?

Bill Sardi

 

[resodko]

:doh:

not another poster with a man-crush on lou

 

[drbrumley]

so you're willing to risk your kids lives with polio, tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella....


what else are you willing to let them die from?

He won't have anything to worry about if he bombs them with Vitamin D and C.

 

[drbrumley]

:doh:

not another poster with a man-crush on lou

:doh: Translation: I'm unreasonable and don't really care.

Cry me a river.

 

[elohiym]

Well, if your position rests upon your religious convictions then it wouldn't matter what the refereed medical literature says on the matter, your objection would remain the same, no?

It would remain the same.

The argument regarding your religious rights over the health of your children is a similar (if not more spurious) ...

Have I made an argument regarding my religious rights over the health of my children? Where?

... some Christian Scientists who believe that they ought to refuse modern medical care for their children on the basis of "religious rights" and "personal beliefs", which has resulted in 172 child deaths between 1975 and 1995 from preventable diseases.

That's unfortunate, but thankfully so few children were allegedly harmed by the practice despite there being millions of adherents to that religion. It doesn't surprise me, and I doubt the few that died did so because they lacked vaccination.

I don't shun "modern medical care" for my children; but, thank God, other than orthodontics and dentistry, my children have never had to visit a doctor. If they needed medical attention, I wouldn't hesitate to take them to a medical facility and consent to evidence-based procedures that could help them.

 

[elohiym]

so you're willing to risk your kids lives with polio, tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella....

God gave them an immune system, no? Did they teach you about the immune system before you dropped out of medical school?

what else are you willing to let them die from?

I'm not willing to let them die at the hands of reckless medical workers.

What job are you doing in health care these days? Nurse's aid? LPN?

 

[elohiym]

He won't have anything to worry about if he bombs them with Vitamin D and C.

If my child became infected with pertussis and I took him to a doctor, he would be given antibiotics to hopefully limit the period of infectivity even though the antibiotics will alter his gut flora (integral to his immune system) and come with other potential adverse side effect.

Several studies from the 30s, 40s and 50s support the use of vitamin C for pertussis to limit the period of infectivity. I wonder if the antibiotic manufacturers will fund studies into the effectiveness of vitamin C compared to their antibiotics. :think:

 

[elohiym]

For those who missed it earlier:

Despite over 50 years of population-wide vaccination, whooping cough incidence is on the rise. Although Bordetella pertussis is considered the main causative agent of whooping cough in humans, Bordetella parapertussis infections are not uncommon. The widely used acellular whooping cough vaccines (aP) are comprised solely of B. pertussis antigens that hold little or no efficacy against B. parapertussis. Here, we ask how aP vaccination affects competitive interactions between Bordetella species within co-infected rodent hosts and thus the aP-driven strength and direction of in-host selection. We show that aP vaccination helped clear B. pertussis but resulted in an approximately 40-fold increase in B. parapertussis lung colony-forming units (CFUs). Such vaccine-mediated facilitation of B. parapertussis did not arise as a result of competitive release; B. parapertussis CFUs were higher in aP-relative to sham-vaccinated hosts regardless of whether infections were single or mixed. Further, we show that aP vaccination impedes host immunity against B. parapertussis—measured as reduced lung inflammatory and neutrophil responses. Thus, we conclude that aP vaccination interferes with the optimal clearance of B. parapertussis and enhances the performance of this pathogen. Our data raise the possibility that widespread aP vaccination can create hosts more susceptible to B. parapertussis infection.​

Acellular pertussis vaccination facilitates Bordetella parapertussis infection in a rodent model of bordetellosis

Pretty damning information, imo.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

It would remain the same.

Precisely, thus there is no point in me presenting the clinical evidence to you which refutes quite decidedly the claims you are making, because you will dismiss it out of hand.

Have I made an argument regarding my religious rights over the health of my children? Where?

Then you can clarify exactly what "religious rights" you were referring to regarding the personal belief exemption -- which applies to children of anti-vaxxer parents. As an adult you are not required to receive vaccination except as a condition of employment for certain public health fields.

That's unfortunate, but thankfully so few children were allegedly harmed by the practice despite there being millions of adherents to that religion.

Preventable deaths of children is just a statistic, apparently. lain:

It doesn't surprise me, and I doubt the few that died did so because they lacked vaccination.

You missed the point entirely.

 

[Angel4Truth]

As an adult you are not required to receive vaccination except as a condition of employment for certain public health fields.

Not exactly, i was required to have an mmr (measles mumps rubella) booster shot in order to attend college.

I had already had the measles and the mumps (twice, got them on one side one year, then on the other in another year) as well as had already been vaccinated against rubella. Because the clinic that vaccinated me was no longer in business, i was forced to be re immunized or i could have chosen to be denied admission to school.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

For those who missed it earlier:

Despite over 50 years of population-wide vaccination, whooping cough incidence is on the rise. Although Bordetella pertussis is considered the main causative agent of whooping cough in humans, Bordetella parapertussis infections are not uncommon. The widely used acellular whooping cough vaccines (aP) are comprised solely of B. pertussis antigens that hold little or no efficacy against B. parapertussis. Here, we ask how aP vaccination affects competitive interactions between Bordetella species within co-infected rodent hosts and thus the aP-driven strength and direction of in-host selection. We show that aP vaccination helped clear B. pertussis but resulted in an approximately 40-fold increase in B. parapertussis lung colony-forming units (CFUs). Such vaccine-mediated facilitation of B. parapertussis did not arise as a result of competitive release; B. parapertussis CFUs were higher in aP-relative to sham-vaccinated hosts regardless of whether infections were single or mixed. Further, we show that aP vaccination impedes host immunity against B. parapertussis—measured as reduced lung inflammatory and neutrophil responses. Thus, we conclude that aP vaccination interferes with the optimal clearance of B. parapertussis and enhances the performance of this pathogen. Our data raise the possibility that widespread aP vaccination can create hosts more susceptible to B. parapertussis infection.​

Acellular pertussis vaccination facilitates Bordetella parapertussis infection in a rodent model of bordetellosis

Pretty damning information, imo.

Wait...hold on.

Are you suggesting that because a vaccine proven effective against the most common strain of whooping cough is not effective against the much less common strain, that we should cease all vaccination? Maybe I misread something here.


Also, do you want to know why whooping cough is on the rise?

 

[elohiym]

Precisely, thus there is no point in me presenting the clinical evidence to you which refutes quite decidedly the claims you are making, because you will dismiss it out of hand.

What claims am I making that you can refute? If you make a good argument, I will not dismiss it.

Then you can clarify exactly what "religious rights" you were referring to regarding the personal belief exemption ...

Freedom to practice my religion. I live in the United States.

As an adult you are not required to receive vaccination except as a condition of employment for certain public health fields.

If vaccines are not mandated for the entire population, why mandate them for school children?

Preventable deaths of children is just a statistic, apparently. lain:

It is for the pro-vaxxers who want to trivialize the injuries and deaths following vaccination as acceptable risk to obtain their goals.

You missed the point entirely.

You had no point, other than to try and associate me with an ideology I don't believe in.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Not exactly, i was required to have an mmr (measles mumps rubella) booster shot in order to attend college.

Ah, yes, some colleges do indeed do this. However not all colleges and universities do this, and as an adult you are not required to go to college. You can choose not to pursue careers where you may be required to get a vaccination. The state may see things a bit differently in regards to children.

 

[elohiym]

Wait...hold on.

Are you suggesting that because a vaccine proven effective against the most common strain of whooping cough is not effective against the much less common strain, that we should cease all vaccination? Maybe I misread something here.

Yeah, you misread my sentence.

Also, do you want to know why whooping cough is on the rise?

Let me guess ... :think: Anti-vaxxers? lain:

 

[aikido7]

Yes.

I think it's folly for a Christian to believe he or his children are protected from death by vaccines.

I think you misunderstood me.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

What claims am I making that you can refute? If you make a good argument, I will not dismiss it.

"New American research shows that there could be a link between the controversial MMR triple vaccine and autism and bowel disease in children"

Specifically refuted by the lead author of that very research that allegedly shows such a link.


"Here is a list of 28 studies that support Wakefield's findings"

I already cited one which does not in that list of 28, and that was the very first one I looked at... this gives me great doubt that the others are any better. I don't have the time or patience to examine all of them, though 1 is sufficient to refute the claim.

Freedom to practice my religion. I live in the United States.

And how do vaccine requirements for children infringe upon your freedom of religion?

If vaccines are not mandated for the entire population, why mandate them for school children?

Because children are not capable of making an informed decision on the matter at such a young age. If adults wish to put themselves in harms way they are free to do so in most respects, they however cannot put children in harms way.

It is for the pro-vaxxers who want to trivialize the injuries and deaths following vaccination as acceptable risk to obtain their goals.

Are you referring to something outside of allergic reactions? Because children which have allergies to the ingredients are not permitted to receive them. Those that knowingly and put children in harms way should be held accountable.

You had no point, other than to try and associate me with an ideology I don't believe in.

The rationale between anti-vaxxers refusing vaccines for their children and Christian Scientists who refuse medical treatment for their children is the same: Infringement upon personal beliefs and parental sovereignty over the welfare of their children.

 

[elohiym]

I think you misunderstood me.

Okay, then explain what you meant.