BRXII Battle talk

[red77]

:squint:

God's desires don't even factor into anything, do they?

they're outdone by man's free will apparently.......

 

[Aimiel]

It seems to me that many of the issues here are simply resolved.

Crankiness has clouded my judgment in posting here at times, so I want to apologize to any whom I’ve offended here up to this point, and state my resolve to participate from hereon in a spirit of civility and a desire for the well-being of all involved.

Being 'civil' doesn't necessarily mean Christian, merely politically correct, but you might just remain un-fit for The Kingdom.

He actually said “eternal,” not “for eternity.” “Eternal” can mean in eternity or of eternity, just as easily as for eternity.

You'll have to decide that for yourself. I know what He meant, by understanding the rest of the Holy Scriptures.

Secondly, if hell is remedial, that is, if it is a means of persuading the extremely obstinate to discontinue their rejection of Christ, then we have no disagreement.

If it is, then salvation is by works, and not grace. Going to hell is merely a way of 'working' yourself into God's acceptance. It makes Christ's Blood of no use whatsoever and is blasphemy.

Your 2nd statement above is true in a purely logical sense, but there is no possible reality to which it can correspond, which makes it, in essence, meaningless.

As are most of your posts. Completly without any connection to any reality and wholely without meaning.

If we acknowledge the fairly obvious fact that after the Judgment there will be no unbelievers left, then we have no disagreement. There may still be rejecters, for a while, but there will be no unbelievers.

Belief requires faith, not merely sight. You don't know what you're talking about.

But if we acknowledge the possibility that hell could be the means of grace whereby one is ultimately persuaded not to utterly reject that sacrifice of love, then we have no disagreement.

See above.

Peace.

You don't have peace with God, because you make His Redemption of no effect. You are anathema.

 

[logos_x]

Being 'civil' doesn't necessarily mean Christian, merely politically correct, but you might just remain un-fit for The Kingdom.You'll have to decide that for yourself. I know what He meant, by understanding the rest of the Holy Scriptures.If it is, then salvation is by works, and not grace. Going to hell is merely a way of 'working' yourself into God's acceptance. It makes Christ's Blood of no use whatsoever and is blasphemy.As are most of your posts. Completly without any connection to any reality and wholely without meaning.Belief requires faith, not merely sight. You don't know what you're talking about.See above.You don't have peace with God, because you make His Redemption of no effect. You are anathema.

All of which means that there is simply no reason to discuss anything with you, and the only reason you are posting at all on this thread is to say you are right and anyone that says otherwise is wrong, even if it's God Himself.

Have a wonderful day!

 

[logos_x]

they're outdone by man's free will apparently.......

yeah...wonder if God views giving us free will as a big mistake.

 

[red77]

Being 'civil' doesn't necessarily mean Christian, merely politically correct, but you might just remain un-fit for The Kingdom.You'll have to decide that for yourself. I know what He meant, by understanding the rest of the Holy Scriptures.If it is, then salvation is by works, and not grace. Going to hell is merely a way of 'working' yourself into God's acceptance. It makes Christ's Blood of no use whatsoever and is blasphemy.As are most of your posts. Completly without any connection to any reality and wholely without meaning.Belief requires faith, not merely sight. You don't know what you're talking about.See above.You don't have peace with God, because you make His Redemption of no effect. You are anathema.

If Christs blood covers everyone and all are reconciled ultimately how on earth does that render his sacrifice meaningless? Is 100% reconciliation pointless - even though that Seems to have been God's intent in the first place?? You only believe redemption counts for anything if there are people who are consigned to torment for not having found the same path as you! Somehow - that smacks of pride to me..........

 

[red77]

yeah...wonder if God views giving us free will as a big mistake.

God - make mistakes.........?

 

[Aimiel]

All of which means that there is simply no reason to discuss anything with you, and the only reason you are posting at all on this thread is to say you are right and anyone that says otherwise is wrong, even if it's God Himself.

I'm not the one who is in disagreement with The Lord. It is He Who described what men will suffer in hell, as well as what awaits them after their judgement. The reasons that I post are my own, but suffice it to say that I'm always ready to give a defense for the hope that lives in me: hope of escaping eternal torment, not hope that God didn't really mean what He actually said.

 

[logos_x]

I'm not the one who is in disagreement with The Lord. It is He Who described what men will suffer in hell, as well as what awaits them after their judgement. The reasons that I post are my own, but suffice it to say that I'm always ready to give a defense for the hope that lives in me: hope of escaping eternal torment, not hope that God didn't really mean what He actually said.

What He actually said is what we are talking about...and I believe you are in disagreement with the Lord.

So...there we are.

Good luck with your theological certainties.

 

[Aimiel]

If Christs blood covers everyone and all are reconciled ultimately how on earth does that render his sacrifice meaningless?

Because it would be much simpler to say, "Ollie, ollie, oxen free," and let everyone into Heaven. He didn't. He decided that it would require faith. Not sight or works, as you seem to believe, but faith. Faith in Christ's Blood is what He requires. Without that faith (which He gives, and many reject) it is impossible to please Him. Being placed into flames until one 'sees' and accepts His Redemption isn't faith, it is the act of a deceiver. God is True.

 

[logos_x]

Because it would be much simpler to say, "Ollie, ollie, oxen free," and let everyone into Heaven. He didn't. He decided that it would require faith. Not sight or works, as you seem to believe, but faith. Faith in Christ's Blood is what He requires. Without that faith (which He gives, and many reject) it is impossible to please Him. Being placed into flames until one 'sees' and accepts His Redemption isn't faith, it is the act of a deceiver. God is True.

So...it is either God saying "Ollie, ollie, oxen free," or let people burn without ceasing and without any hope whatsoever.

Ok...that makes perfect sense.

 

[red77]

I'm not the one who is in disagreement with The Lord. It is He Who described what men will suffer in hell, as well as what awaits them after their judgement. The reasons that I post are my own, but suffice it to say that I'm always ready to give a defense for the hope that lives in me: hope of escaping eternal torment, not hope that God didn't really mean what He actually said.

For he will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that All things are in subjection, it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him. But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that God may be all in all.
(1Cor:27-28)

Do you believe that God can accomplish this or not?

 

[Aimiel]

What He actually said is what we are talking about...and I believe you are in disagreement with the Lord.

Your beliefs are noted. You're the one who quotes dozens of false teachers and spurious texts to attempt to re-define clearly understood scriptures, to disavow yourself from any type of orthodoxy. You're the one who doesn't hold sound doctrine, not most of Christianity. You're the one who has chosen to disagree with The Lord, not I.

So...there we are.

There you are. A legend in your own mind.

So...it is either God saying "Ollie, ollie, oxen free," or let people burn without ceasing and without any hope whatsoever.

No, it is God saying, "Be perfect," and men disobeying. That is what it is. Without being perfect, no one can enter Heaven. No one is perfect. That is why He had to sacrifice His Son. To allow us to enter His Home. He qualifies us by adoption. He gave His Son to be crucified, so that we could gain eternal life. Without that sacrifice, we would be without hope.

 

[red77]

So...it is either God saying "Ollie, ollie, oxen free," or let people burn without ceasing and without any hope whatsoever.

Ok...that makes perfect sense.

Indeed, faultless logic and no mistake......... :rain:

 

[logos_x]

Your beliefs are noted. You're the one who quotes dozens of false teachers and spurious texts to attempt to re-define clearly understood scriptures, to disavow yourself from any type of orthodoxy. You're the one who doesn't hold sound doctrine, not most of Christianity. You're the one who has chosen to disagree with The Lord, not I.There you are. A legend in your own mind.No, it is God saying, "Be perfect," and men disobeying. That is what it is. Without being perfect, no one can enter Heaven. No one is perfect. That is why He had to sacrifice His Son. To allow us to enter His Home. He qualifies us by adoption. He gave His Son to be crucified, so that we could gain eternal life. Without that sacrifice, we would be without hope.

What "false teachers" have I quoted?

I quoted scripture and church fathers, and your entire argument is your belief that aion when it relates to judgement lasts forever because Jesus gives eternal life.

And, yes, I agree that without that sacrifice we would be without hope. But He made that sacrifice, therefore there is hope.

 

[Redfin]

All of which means that there is simply no reason to discuss anything with you, and the only reason you are posting at all on this thread is to say you are right and anyone that says otherwise is wrong, even if it's God Himself.

Sadly, your conclusion is true.

Hopefully Amiel will not have to be chastened too severely by God before he learns humility.

 

[Aimiel]

Hopefully Amiel will not have to be chastened too severely by God before he learns humility.

If that is what it takes to get into Heaven, works (receiving chastening and correcting one's behavior) then The Word of God is a lie. Universalists never cease to amaze me with the amount of hogwash they peddle by quoting piles of false teachers and then not understanding the simplest of Kingdom concepts. atrol:

 

[Redfin]

I think I understand.

It's post Battle Royale V stress disorder.

Some people just never get over that sort of devastation.

 

[Nineveh]

For he will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that All things are in subjection, it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him. But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that God may be all in all.
(1Cor:27-28)

Do you believe that God can accomplish this or not?

I fail to see where those not found in the Book of Life aren't in subjection.

 

[Nineveh]

Hopefully Amiel will not have to be chastened too severely by God before he learns humility.

Maybe you should be preaching humility to folks who don't believe God really has a Law that defines sin.

 

[Redfin]

Maybe you should be preaching humility to folks who don't believe God really has a Law that defines sin.

If your response had something to do with my post, I might have something to say... :think: