I have never in my life seen the English people get so worked up, the brexit debate is even more passionate than the Scottish referendum....we are behaving like Americans
Brexit
- Thread starter Totton Linnet
- Start date
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
well, there was that one time in the fifties when mandatory dental care was proposed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzMktzipRc
Remainers: Brash, accusatory, fearmongerers, self-seeking, ad hominem.
Leavers: Explanatory, patient, sincere.
Remainers: Brash, accusatory, fearmongerers, self-seeking, ad hominem.
Leavers: Explanatory, patient, sincere.
musterion
Well-known member
The commenter was summarily condemned as a racist, no doubt.
musterion
Well-known member
Good on ya.
Scotland will follow. I'm pretty sure they only voted against leaving out of necessity, until a more opportune time arrives.
I don't like the UK, their horns are big and their guns are small. I almost can't wait until a tyranny, either from itself or elsewhere, slips right in and takes that godforsaken amplifier from their hands
lain:
I don't like the UK, their horns are big and their guns are small. I almost can't wait until a tyranny, either from itself or elsewhere, slips right in and takes that godforsaken amplifier from their hands
lain:
Scotland will follow. I'm pretty sure they only voted against leaving out of necessity, until a more opportune time arrives.
I don't like the UK, their horns are big and their guns are small. I almost can't wait until a tyranny, either from itself or elsewhere, slips right in and takes that godforsaken amplifier from their hands
Who cares who or what you like? It is we who will decide, thank you.
They don't like guys like you eitherScotland will follow. I'm pretty sure they only voted against leaving out of necessity, until a more opportune time arrives.
I don't like the UK, their horns are big and their guns are small. I almost can't wait until a tyranny, either from itself or elsewhere, slips right in and takes that godforsaken amplifier from their hands
That's pretty hypocritical seeing as how you folk are going to America preaching about guns being bad and Russia talking about 'bigoted' anti-homosexuality
Like I said, big ol' amplifiers with big mouths behind them. But then again, you all have always been historically pretentious.
I haven't a clue what you are talking about. If you can show me where I have said that guns are bad or anti-Russian statements, then feel free.That's pretty hypocritical seeing as how you folk are going to America preaching about guns being bad and Russia talking about 'bigoted' anti-homosexuality
Like I said, big ol' amplifiers with big mouths behind them. But then again, you all have always been historically pretentious.
I am not being hypocritical. You are merely demonstrating that you are an idiot. No one asked for your racist comments. You can think what you like of our country but it is our country and we decide what goes. You don't count, so get lost.
"Racist comments"
See, everything over there that doesn't fit into their bias is racist, sexist, 'homophobic', xenophobic, anon anon
As for everything else, the media has well shown that you all rail against American and Russian laws contrary to your ridiculous platitudes. I don't really care about what YOU have said, in fact it wouldn't go too far on a site that is predominantly conservative would it?
You are the one demonstrating your ignorance, not me. The UK does a whole lot of talking, but can't take in what they dish- because of the painfully liberal, PC state that it has become
Also, free speech is something you all obviously do not like- here, we have it in a more pure sense. I shall say what I say, and you can be offended all day
lain:
musterion
Well-known member
Fair enough. Please post something to this effect the next time some of the Brits here try instructing us about U.S. political affairs.
If you would call it to my attention, sure. But I have never engaged in that. It just isn't my personality. Which is why Crucible's comments were uncalled-for trolling.
musterion
Well-known member
I'm pretty confident you have not as well. Tot and Artie are the ones that come to mind.
So the crash and thunder of debate comes to an end, it has been a passionate debate, the slaying of a sisterly Labour MP, a loving wife and mother of young children by a madman changed the tenor of the debacle somewhat. It has been similar to the Scottish referendum, the same arguments used by the leave and the stay side...and the same tactics.
The difference in the mix has been immigration and the more subtle difference between the fact that the Westminster government can be removed by the public will but the essential Euro government cannot.
Scotland receives very little of the immigrants that have come...but it is true that the Scottish vote alone cannot remove the hated Tories...but that in turn has given rise to the Scottish National party.
Tomorrow the vote
I believe the turnout will be high and I predeict the stay camp will win by a healthy margin.
....but Cameron and Osborn are toast.
The difference in the mix has been immigration and the more subtle difference between the fact that the Westminster government can be removed by the public will but the essential Euro government cannot.
Scotland receives very little of the immigrants that have come...but it is true that the Scottish vote alone cannot remove the hated Tories...but that in turn has given rise to the Scottish National party.
Tomorrow the vote
I believe the turnout will be high and I predeict the stay camp will win by a healthy margin.
....but Cameron and Osborn are toast.
eider
Well-known member
OUT
One last time, here is my position:
The list is far from exhaustive, I could easily extend it but tiredness prevents. And I tried to avoid some of the tired issues that are in the headlines so as to make my points a little more interesting. I used to be a Europhile and learnt to speak French very fluently – French people noticed my accent but thought I was from another part of the country! And of course I lived in Paris and married Julie there. Like a lot of people in the Leave leadership, I also still appreciate the interacting with different cultures. It is something that has really enlarged my intellect greatly. But the EU itself is quite a different issue now. Anyway, here is my list:
I agree wholeheartedly that it is not about Cameron or Gove or Farage, but about our children and grandchildren. So this is what I have thought after much research and deliberation… I have pasted it in from another email I sent to someone. It is really only touching on a few issues but it will give you a flavour of my views.
I am unashamedly in the Brexit camp. My reasons for it are clear and sober.
1. Over the years, our prime ministers have voted 70+ times in the council of ministers of the EU on matters which potentially affect our country. In precisely none of these votes was our will obtained. This means that Remain talk of 'influencing the EU from within' is pie in the sky. We have never influenced EU decision-making one single iota in the past. Why would anyone expect us to in the future? It also means that we are not represented in the EU whatsoever - we simply have to do as we are told.
2. In the EU Court of Justice (the supreme court, the final arbiter from which there is no redress) over about a hundred or more actions, we have won no more than 30%.
3. On the basis of 1 and 2, it is clear that the British simply do not see eye to eye with the EU. Our thinking is completely different: it took us over 10 years to get rid of Abu Hamza, a proven hate-monger. Why, because we had to follow liberal humanitarian principles as determined by the ECHR. We are a pragmatic people, they are idealistic. I don't see the point in sharing a bed with them just for the sake of it. We get nothing out of it at all.
4. For all these negative points we have the privilege of being the second largest net contributor to the EU budget. We pay a net figure of about £10b for the honour of being never listened to, not represented at all and really being the one 'they saw coming a mile off', everybody's fool.
5. Half of our laws are determined for us by the EU Commission, not by parliament. This has led to a number of occasions where our parties have made promises they were unable to keep because the ECJ overruled it. We cannot abolish tampon tax, we cannot reduce VAT on home heating bills and myriad other issues. Worse is that this EU Commission that makes all the laws is unelected. It consists mostly of former government ministers from member states who have lost elections and who somehow manage to get a permanent job for their retirement. And they invent silly laws like the shape of vegetables that are allowed to be sold in shops. Which means that all the mis-shapes just get thrown away. But there is nothing whatsoever that anyone can do to challenge these laws or the people who make them.
6. The EU has made huge mistakes in the past such as creating butter mountains so that farmers can be given subsidies. Or by the fisheries policy which has totally ruined our own fishing industry, with its silly wasteful laws that if you bring in a catch more than your quota, you have to dump the excess into the sea. The main object of these subsidies is to protect EU industries at the expense of third world industries, especially agricultural ones.
7. Not content with correcting their mistakes, they pursue them. Here is another mistake. Allowing many more countries into the union who were much poorer than the existing members. For example, freedom of movement of workers worked well when all the countries were economically equal. It means that if we have a surfeit of scientists, they can work happily in Holland, or vice versa. The principle worked well but the EU can’t see the difference between idealism and practice. The result is that all the poorest workers rush to the richest countries with their minimum wages and social benefits. Such mass movements were surely not intended when the idea was conceived, yet the EU can’t distinguish between idea and reality.
Time prevents me from saying more, of letting Greece into the Euro knowing they were not economically ready for it, of being ready to let Turkey in (and Cameron will not veto this).
We simply do not belong here. In, we will totally lose our identity since we have to do only what we are told. We need to take control of our country and our borders.
As I said, I am unashamedly voting leave, though I once loved Europe and it seemed a great idea, but it has lost its way and its move to ever closer union is not something I can cope with as we have no say whatsoever in what is going on. Our parliament will become redundant, it will not matter what party you vote for as all the major decisions will be made for us. We might as well let Parliament become a historic museum or a meeting place for hire.
The list is far from exhaustive, I could easily extend it but tiredness prevents. And I tried to avoid some of the tired issues that are in the headlines so as to make my points a little more interesting. I used to be a Europhile and learnt to speak French very fluently – French people noticed my accent but thought I was from another part of the country! And of course I lived in Paris and married Julie there. Like a lot of people in the Leave leadership, I also still appreciate the interacting with different cultures. It is something that has really enlarged my intellect greatly. But the EU itself is quite a different issue now. Anyway, here is my list:
I agree wholeheartedly that it is not about Cameron or Gove or Farage, but about our children and grandchildren. So this is what I have thought after much research and deliberation… I have pasted it in from another email I sent to someone. It is really only touching on a few issues but it will give you a flavour of my views.
I am unashamedly in the Brexit camp. My reasons for it are clear and sober.
1. Over the years, our prime ministers have voted 70+ times in the council of ministers of the EU on matters which potentially affect our country. In precisely none of these votes was our will obtained. This means that Remain talk of 'influencing the EU from within' is pie in the sky. We have never influenced EU decision-making one single iota in the past. Why would anyone expect us to in the future? It also means that we are not represented in the EU whatsoever - we simply have to do as we are told.
2. In the EU Court of Justice (the supreme court, the final arbiter from which there is no redress) over about a hundred or more actions, we have won no more than 30%.
3. On the basis of 1 and 2, it is clear that the British simply do not see eye to eye with the EU. Our thinking is completely different: it took us over 10 years to get rid of Abu Hamza, a proven hate-monger. Why, because we had to follow liberal humanitarian principles as determined by the ECHR. We are a pragmatic people, they are idealistic. I don't see the point in sharing a bed with them just for the sake of it. We get nothing out of it at all.
4. For all these negative points we have the privilege of being the second largest net contributor to the EU budget. We pay a net figure of about £10b for the honour of being never listened to, not represented at all and really being the one 'they saw coming a mile off', everybody's fool.
5. Half of our laws are determined for us by the EU Commission, not by parliament. This has led to a number of occasions where our parties have made promises they were unable to keep because the ECJ overruled it. We cannot abolish tampon tax, we cannot reduce VAT on home heating bills and myriad other issues. Worse is that this EU Commission that makes all the laws is unelected. It consists mostly of former government ministers from member states who have lost elections and who somehow manage to get a permanent job for their retirement. And they invent silly laws like the shape of vegetables that are allowed to be sold in shops. Which means that all the mis-shapes just get thrown away. But there is nothing whatsoever that anyone can do to challenge these laws or the people who make them.
6. The EU has made huge mistakes in the past such as creating butter mountains so that farmers can be given subsidies. Or by the fisheries policy which has totally ruined our own fishing industry, with its silly wasteful laws that if you bring in a catch more than your quota, you have to dump the excess into the sea. The main object of these subsidies is to protect EU industries at the expense of third world industries, especially agricultural ones.
7. Not content with correcting their mistakes, they pursue them. Here is another mistake. Allowing many more countries into the union who were much poorer than the existing members. For example, freedom of movement of workers worked well when all the countries were economically equal. It means that if we have a surfeit of scientists, they can work happily in Holland, or vice versa. The principle worked well but the EU can’t see the difference between idealism and practice. The result is that all the poorest workers rush to the richest countries with their minimum wages and social benefits. Such mass movements were surely not intended when the idea was conceived, yet the EU can’t distinguish between idea and reality.
Time prevents me from saying more, of letting Greece into the Euro knowing they were not economically ready for it, of being ready to let Turkey in (and Cameron will not veto this).
We simply do not belong here. In, we will totally lose our identity since we have to do only what we are told. We need to take control of our country and our borders.
As I said, I am unashamedly voting leave, though I once loved Europe and it seemed a great idea, but it has lost its way and its move to ever closer union is not something I can cope with as we have no say whatsoever in what is going on. Our parliament will become redundant, it will not matter what party you vote for as all the major decisions will be made for us. We might as well let Parliament become a historic museum or a meeting place for hire.
drbrumley
Well-known member
As they should